To intensely dislike Keir Starmer

[LemonyTicket]

I can't stand Tories.
The current Tories are the worst

But I still intensely dislike Keir Starmer and will probably vote Green.

I find him phony, with no vision, like a terrible 6th form prefect. And to be honest his whole front bench are dreadful. Wes Streeting nauseates me.

Is it just me?

You will give a monkeys when you realise our definition in law entitles us to silly little things like:

• Our equality rights which led us to obtain our own bank accounts in the 70s, the vote etc.
• Maternity rights.
• More funding for health research for women.
• Rape law is based on penises so suddenly there’s a lot of female rapists m.
• Men in women’s prisons, rape crisis centres, locker rooms etc.
• Same sex care which affects the disabled…

But I mean yeah… definitions don’t matter for 50% of the population. You’ll note mens words haven’t been taken as an FYI.

No I am not making anything up. Why on earth would I, especially when doubts and criticism of the lineup's calibre were a matter of public record and widely reported at the time? Truth matters.

I don't want to derail so this is a rhetorical question - does anyone think the response to an officer being investigated and charged with murder is appropriate? After all the police scandals brought to light they again circle the wagons to defend someone accused of a serious crime.

Oh, and it's not "a complex issue" : sex is sex, gender is gender. One is biology, essential to us being here, the other is stereotypes and subjective feelings. Not conflating the two is the opposite of complex,it's bloody simple!!

Unbelievable to those who are dissing him! I want a prime minister who will do his job to bring normality into politics.

Kier may be boring (he isn't). However, if I want to be entertained, I will go to the theatre.

I don't care that he is boring. I want my country back. The country we had before the Tories in name only (Chris Patten words - a tory of Thatcher time) got their hands on it.

With Kier, that will happen. A link to a podcast with Kier is at the end of this. Listen, you will be surprised at the depth of the quiet man.

You need to be voting tactically in the area you live in if you're in a Tory area. The main government, even under a hung parliament, will be Tory or Labour.

That's how the voting system is, like it or not. This is the Tory government that has destroyed this country in the last 13 years. I can't believe anyone wants to see this populist corrupt evil government, extreme tight wing bordering facism in power any longer.

We won't go their re Brexit, which was an opinion poll, never was legally binding, won on lies, undemocratic, on a minority tiny win and has broken this country. There should have been a 2nd referendum to confirm the country still wanted it once the facts became known.

Kier is not going to announce all his policies with this lot in power too soon as this lot will diss him and steal those they like

The man has integrity and decency. Listen to the podcast and tell me otherwise. If you don't listen to it, you refuse to learn.

He didn't come from money. He is self-made. His parents were an ordinary couple, a 3 bedroomed semi-detached home with 4 children and 4 dogs.

His dad was a toolmaker, and his mom was a nurse. (His dad didn't own the factory he worked in either before someone says that)

Kier was born of an age where he won scholarships to further himself. Serious, sensible with a quiet dry humour you will find for yourself if you listen to the podcast.

Kier and Angela Raynor are the ying and yang of each other, which it why it works.

The land he owns someone mentioned he bought for his mom and dad when they retired, and they went into donkey rescuing.

Anyway, here's the link

Check out this episode of Full Disclosure with James O'Brien on Global Player - www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrdiaM/

He might not be ideal in many ways but he is million times better than the shower of shits we had for the last 13 years, especially the current lot. He will get my vote for sure.

Stop talking sense!

Look, I’m not a conservative voter but I live in Wales. I can assure you that Labour have not made that happen here yet.

He was also mired in numerous high profile scandals, controversies and misjudgements, notably refusing to prosecute the killers of Jean Charles de Menezes and Ian Tomlinson, which meant he was frequently attacked in the media. Starmer likes to take the sole credit for certain prosecutions while he was DPP but when his mistakes are brought up it's always someone else's fault.

This was pretty much what my friend said. Cherry-picked the cases he thought would make him look good (and was likely to win) and shirked the tougher cases.

I'm sure he's not the only DPP who's done this but, by all accounts, he didn't exactly cover himself in glory. And, as I said, from a very loyal Labour voter, not a Conservative voter with an axe to grind.

It's all academic anyway- the Tories are going to win the next election. Because enough of the electorate are as uninformed and lightweight to vote them in again. As evidenced by this thread.

No I think you’re wrong - and the reason is as follows. Sir Keir Starmer is an establishment guy (clues in the name) - boring, intelligent, and with centrist Blairite policies. And will on an objective measure probably run a more competent government than Sunak, Johnson, Cameron etc etc.

For the above reasons, some sections of the media that were horrified at the idea of a Corbyn Labour government or Ed Miliband Labour government will start to swing behind him (as they did with Blair) and he will win comfortably. And of course, given how inpopular the current government is, he would probably even win without the likes of the Sun, The Times etc, but they do love to back a winner and being seen as “on the same page” as the rest of the country.

Starmer is no threat to the status quo and him winning the next election brings two benefits A) a period of greater stability and competence. And B) an opportunity for the Tory Party to regroup and remodel and win back power as and when required.

You only need to look at the minuscule amount of negative press and scare stories that Starmer gets off the right wing press compared to what they threw at Corbyn/Miliband to know which Party will win the next election.

@IdleAnimations no ones taking away our bank accounts or maternity rights. I find this stuff frankly hysterical.

There's a few situations where I think it's important that careful thought goes in to protect women in setting as you mentioned, like prison and sports.

That aside, I couldn't give a moneys if someone wants to calk themselves a woman, a shark, an 18th century decorative vase. Makes no difference to me!

@anotherside

You only need to look at the minuscule amount of negative press and scare stories that Starmer gets off the right wing press compared to what they threw at Corbyn/Miliband to know which Party will win the next election

Completely agree. I think he's made clear he will be keeping the status quo, so he will be permitted to win!

Terrible state off affairs.

I hope sincerely hope you're right.

His dad was a toolmaker, and his mom was a nurse

Oh my days, I can't believe his toolmaker story works on people. He had a nice middle class upbringing and went to Oxford.

Regardless of what his Dad was, he's been a wealthy, powerful man swanning around with a chauffer and first class plane tickets and he's very much NOT "salt of the earth anymore".

I think if you put Starmer in a council flat with people who really are working class he wouldn't know what to do with himself

"I'm love the NHS that's why I'm not voting Labour". Come on OP, you can do better than that. Meanwhile we all stand back impressed by the quality of management the Tories have provided, just look at it. Proud? Of course you are if you're a shareholder in private medicine companies. They must be raking it in.

Totally agree but what I meant is that protecting women's right while still protecting transgender rights is complex.

I can't think of an easy solution anyway.

’Hysterical’ to want to keep a clear definition of the female sex - really?

If females cease to exist in terms of definitions - even the other parts you’ve outlined become grey areas thus eroding our rights. It may make no difference to you, but I’ve known women in those rape centres, hospitals etc who it has affected. If we become a thing anyone can be, the female experience becomes distorted and frankly ceases to exist in reality.

But you do you.

Oh my days, I can't believe his toolmaker story works on people. He had a nice middle class upbringing and went to Oxford.

He passed his 11+, went to grammar school and thence to Oxford. First of his family to go to university. Doesn’t mean he didn’t have a working class upbringing.

And I would assume the chauffeur driven car was an official car provided for his DPP role.

Plus he went to Leeds for his undergrad

I think people might have misunderstood my feelings. I don't like "charisma" and don't need it.

I intensely dislike Starmer because I think he's a liar, lacks integrity and has no vision or real character. I think he'll say whatever the focus group tells him too.

I dislike his policies, almost across the board, and I think if elected he will do little to nothing but maintain the Tory shit show.

I dislike that his donors are millionaires and corporations who are essentially bribing him and his rabble to keep things just as they are.

I'm not expecting miracles, but I think a Labour leader should be for the people not the corporations, and given that 70% of the front bench went to Oxford - to me they're just grammar school Tories.

They're all part of a club. Politicians. Journalists. Big wigs. They're all perfectly happy for things to be as they are, and I intensely dislike Starmer because I think he's let the country down.

We don't need Tory lite. We need someone with a backbone and integrity who's willing to be honest and say austerity didn't work, brexit didn't work, privatisation hasn't worked - and begin rethinking things so we can regain basic things.

Like decent education that doesn't put you in debt for 30 years. Good quality healthcare. Homes we can afford. These are all the basics.

Doesn’t mean he didn’t have a working class upbringing

I've seen his childhood home. Very nice 3 bed detached in a nice neighbourhood. I think he plays on being working class.

As for the chauffer, no one in the public sector needs a chauffer. We have black taxis. Most celebrities don't have chauffer.

Lots of these boil down to “I’m not voting Labour because the Tories are shit”, which lacks logic. Blaming Labour of the future for 13 years of Tory neglect, incompetence, corruption, venality, cruelty, disgrace.

I’d like Labour to have a better figurehead but I’m not going to cut my nose to spite my face.

I’m not on either side of the fence politically but I do believe he plays on being working class. His dad was a business owner not a lowly tool maker working for someone else. Not saying there wasn’t graft but as someone from a council estate - not the same thing in my eyes. I find it a cheapening of people who’ve actually clawed their way up.

Ironically, Rishi Sunak would be considered from a far more improvised background than Starmer. He was a 2nd generation immigrant born in Portsmouth. His ‘family money’ was actually his wife’s money who he met at Uni. He amassed his own wealth through this link and banking.

But either way, a lot of working class folk forget their roots when they enter the establishment so it’s neither here nor there.

@BloodyHellKen I'll probably vote for a local candidate.
What on earth does that mean?
Everyone votes for candidates in their constituency.

"I'm love the NHS that's why I'm not voting Labour". Come on OP, you can do better than that. Meanwhile we all stand back impressed by the quality of management the Tories have provided, just look at it. Proud? Of course you are if you're a shareholder in private medicine companies. They must be raking it in

Wes Streeting has outright said they're going to EXTEND privatisation of the NHS. MORE shareholders in private medicine. Why are people not listening? His other half is a lobbyist who works to give interested parties an "ear in Westminster".

The man was PRO tuition fees from his days as president of the NUS. He's effectively a working class Tory with his nose deep in the trough.

I can't believe people are this naive 😔 😫 😪 just because someone has a red rosette it doesn't make them good for the NHS!

Until he became leader of the Labour Party I used to see KS on the bus. He’s very much part of his local community which is a real mix. I’ve only noticed him with a minder and being driven more recently. Maybe about the time the man that killed the Tory MP was found to be living 2 mins away from his house.