To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

Apologies if been said. Check out Roxanne Emery and Richard Pink. She has ADHD. He doesn't. They do short videos which are funny but really demonstrate what ADHD is like and that and their book might help with under standing and tips to help (I've not read the book).

Get an assessment for him. It does sound absolutely classic. Hyper focus coupled with total executive distinction is diagnostic!

YABU to have shouted because it will have fed the shame he probably feels about not being able to do the basic things everyone else can.

YANBU for not knowing that though or for having asked because you've probably just been given life changing info on this thread. If you hadn't shouted, you wouldn't have asked!

This is such a heartwarming update that clearly shows both how much you love your DS and how much support he needs. I can’t imagine how tiring and difficult this has been for both of you, but I’m certain now you’ll be able to work together to genuinely improve things. I only wish I could help, but I’m so happy you are now working together! :)

This message is too complex for a simple yes or no to whether you’re being unreasonable.

Your child may indeed be bright - but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have behavioural issues that need to be addressed.

He needs an assessment. He needs a SENCO. He needs professional support and I am surprised the school hasn’t noticed - on the other hand, with 20-30 other children all doing the correct thing, your DS has someone to copy and may not appear to be struggling as much as when it’s you with him and watching him one on one.

For a lazy child, you are not being unreasonable! But your child doesn’t sound lazy! He would not have been disappointed with himself (you said he turned pale, when he realised that he didn’t have his bag), if he was simply lazy.

1. Explain to the school that he needs help and INSIST that they help you.
2. Research online all the help you can get with assessments and statements
3. Aim to be at school an hour earlier than required - it will take the pressure off you ALL. The impact of this level of stress and frustration WILL take its toll, if you don’t deal with it in a practical way!

Good luck! You can help your DS to achieve their potential and manage their apparently severe inability to focus.

This isn't disobedience, he obviously cares. This is an issue that needs to be addressed with a professional. I'd make an appointment to see the SENCO at school to discuss tactics.

Hyperfocus is classic ADHD!

This sounds like my daughter when she was at school. She has ADHD.

You've described my youngest perfectly. School dismissed my concerns for years about his organisational skills. They just showed me his standardised test scores every time where he's in the top 3% in the country apparently.

I didn't think he had SEN, because school told me he didn't. After a comment on MN, I took him for private assessments.

Profoundly dyslexic and inattentive ADHD. His working memory is shocking. He has zero phonics skills, but it's all been masked.

The person who assessed him stated in the reports that his examination results so far do not reflect his abilities and knowledge.

Lovely update OP I'm happy for you. Pls god things will improve (probably slowly) but one step at a time xx

Missed your update op when I posted.

You sound like a wonderful mum and you have a great relationship with your son

I also wanted to say. It's ok that you lose your shit sometimes, my DS has a diagnosis and it's still bloody hard. I still lose my shit sometimes

That's exactly one of the symptoms of ADHD.

First to say that I really feel for you. But also to add that all the posts urging you to get him some help are absolutely spot on because he's clearly showing that he needs it. I think you'll all benefit, especially him, if you really focus on this rather than doing the same things every day that are not working. I don't want to diagnose off a post, and I'm not qualified, but what you describe is classically associated with some conditions that others have also mentioned and he is the one having to live with it. I also agree that being super organised, with very clear et patterns of behaviour for things that need to happen and having absolutely the same regime ALL the time - down to where his stuff is every day - can help some children hugely cope with their situation/condition. whether it is autism, ADHD or something else. Very best of luck to you and him.

I have been following but not reading all replies.
As so much experience here I'm wondering what are options once child is diagnosed? What can help this boy ?
Are options medication or Mom/son coming up with a routine and system that helps organise.
My daughter has working memory issues and my young son I really think ADHD hyper focus but same time very distracted can't even finish breakfast mornings.
OP sounds very like my mornings.
My husband seems to have ADHD also - it difficult in house having to help 2 or 3 people get ready mornings. My daughter very good but easily frustrated when she gets off track.

My son has ADHD but it’s not all problems he’s improved has his got mature no medication now, always on time especially for work, and hasn’t taken a day off work for sickness as far as I can remember in 5 years
like yours his a happy very social lad, and works for a well known optician and doing very well, once he learns something his fine, I can still remember teaching him tasks like doing up his shoe laces was a major task and problem to him and sending him upstairs to get things and his trying to remember the three things, often he’d come back down with nothing
was often very frustrating
Try give him all the love and support you can and I’m sure he will be fine.

You are a brilliant mum, empathetic. It was heartwarming to read your message. You have a close relationship with your children. Ignore the unkind comments from people on this thread.
If he does not function well with lists, could you do visuals, like laminated colourful flashcards as reminders? Teeth cleaning? Uniform? PE kit? You will find you will act as his PA for a bit till he gets into his routine. They just need a structure and practice. They don’t deal well with change. You’ll soon see him take charge as he gains in confidence.
You’d be amazed how many men in very high positions have ADHD because they think outside the box and find solutions to problems neurotypical people can’t fathom, they often have brilliant PAs to support them.
My son was not into team sports either but was a good runner and OK at tennis. He always loved his bike and cycling helped him clear his mind, he said. He now mountain bikes and when he feels overwhelmed, goes out for a 5 k run which calms him. He is an accomplished snowboarder, a big of an adrenaline junkie which is because they need a dopamine hit.
He has a large white board in his office at home (he works at home some days since the pandemic) and all kinds of apps on his phone and watch to support him.
He has his own drawer in his house’s hallway to put away his car and house keys and tag.
As to his dad, he has several whiteboards everywhere with bullet points in different colours (only a few) and he is messy, he has to have his belongings in piles as he has to visually see things since if they are put away he cannot remember where he put them.

Dr Berkeley devoted his life to ADHD because his brother had it (he’s on YouTube) ADHD/ASD community support group (UK only) has a Facebook page for people who have chosen the non medicinal path like my husband and son. How to ADHD on YouTube is a young woman who explains her condition well.
Good luck! Hyperfocus and thinking outside the box is their strength and procrastination and forgetfulness their weaknesses. Warm wishes.

This post made me cry as it reminds me if my son who is also very bright and funny but is very disorganised and slow in the mornings. It sounds like your son is really trying but showing signs of struggling. I think until he shows that he is able to manage the list of tasks, you probably need to be more involved in helping him organise himself. He is still young he has time to learn organisation skills. It's hard to not get frustrated but I think providing emotional support and being more involved in his morning routine might help until these skills naturally evolve as he gets older.

I posted upthread but I'm back again! I have ADHD, ASD and dyspraxia (just a reminder of my credentials 😂)

I was assessed for dyslexia a couple of years ago and was subsequently diagnosed, which was a real surprise due to my level of reading and writing; I have always been on the hyperlexic side of the scale. Long story short, it turns out I actually have a visual processing disorder, not dyslexia. (There are people out there who dispute the existence of Irlen Syndrome but all I can say is, a lifetime of issues have been all but cured by wearing glasses with coloured lenses/adding a coloured tint to my screens.)

Sorry, the point is this: during the assessment I scored on the 86th percentile for reading ability but way down on the 5th percentile for information processing and parallel processing (trying to do something that requires multiple sources of information e.g. reading instructions while trying to carry out the task itself). So I can read a paragraph of text quickly and fairly accurately but when it comes to understanding what I've just read, my comprehension is worse than 95% of people. The assessor's report describes me has having "marked and unexpected difficulty" with it, as compared to the rest of my abilities.

Just seen your latest post.
You. Are. Being. Awesome.
(I hardly ever say this! You are.)
You really bloody are.

He’s got ADHD. My son was/is exactly the same. You need to read up on it as his symptoms are textbook

I’m glad you listened to everyone about adhd because honestly I was in tears reading about your boy. This and the little chat you had later just completely described my childhood everything from being late to exhaustion after school. Unfortunately as a woman (who’s hyperactivity is very much a racing thoughts and inability to get comfortable) I didn’t get any help till I advocated for myself at 28 when I realised I was not handling covid the same way as everyone around me. You have options, with the school and gp involved at this age hopefully you won’t have to go private but if you do check out the right to choose act. The fact that your daughter is in sen could be useful to mention to any doctor and gp. Have a look online for the assessments, there’s one that you just tick through and one that you can write examples of the behaviour. Really think about the questions, I’ve gone through them with my cousin who said she doesn’t do one thing while doing it in a different form right infront of me. I’m not a particularly hyperactive person from the outside but I have suffered from serious anxiety due to hyperactive and racing thoughts which the psychiatrist explained was part of it. I also don’t sit still for long, I sit on my legs, shuffle in my seat, cross my legs ect. I just hope you get him the help he needs!

My son was similar. It took him a long time to read for the same reason. Like your son, his brain was on overdrive as he had to concentrate 150% the everyone else's 100%. It was in year 7 where it became noticeable and led to a diagnosis of dyslexia. Whatever the diagnosis, it is worth persevering with a diagnosis as it will allow him extra time in exams and possibly a laptop for his work. Most importantly, he will be given more understanding from everyone, including himself. It sounds as if auditory processing disorder is playing a big part of his problems and it is very common with dyslexia, ADHD, dyspraxia and autism. Does he play any musical instruments? Music fosters listening skills above all else, plus being a lot of fun. My daughter, who has dyspraxia and mild autism, recently gained a masters degree in music. As a side effect, she was shown to have lost virtually all the auditory processing disorder that was obvious when she was eleven. This was put down to the music.
You are obviously a fantastic mum and, step by step, things will improve. Your son sounds delightful too

Both and all of what you say. But you have to find what works for you and adapt to your own quirks and the family's circumstances, and to keep that understanding going, because when you start work (for example) it will be a whole new set of challenges from this point in life.

On the one hand, workable and fairly 'humble' organisational habits are going to help. Plus the really good feeling of hyperfocus but recognising when that can lead to burnout, which you don't notice rushing in as it feels so liberating.

On the other hand, from my point of view, the struggles of accepting shame and rejection. Never seems to get easier. It's a very individual feeling. My earlier suggestion of a screw-up fund is about this - instead of feeling the shame, just accept that this shit will happen and you have a monetary contingency for it. One less thing to beat yourself up about when you move on with it, 'charge it to the screw-up fund', means that the rest, that are not so tedious, get a bit more of your attention.

You have just described ADHD. I know this because of my own child... You could have just described every day of her school life. She was in detention pretty much every day because of it. He might also have dyspraxia, which also adds to the inability to perceive passing time. Please do him a huge favour and get him diagnosed. Find an ADHD checklist online, then take it to your doctor and insist on a referral. I say this because if this is what he has, he is being punished for something he has no control over. Like being punished for having blue eyes. It will continue and he will start hating himself... because it will also come from his teachers, his friends, as well as his family. It might also impact on his exams. My daughter still struggles, but at least we know what it is... she chooses medication, which was a game changer for her, but might not be the path for your son. Good luck

Ok, this is a completely wild hunch and I could be WAY off beam and I'm not even sure if it's been mentioned yet, but could it be ADHD?

Sorry, I posted before reading all your responses. The H in ADHD can be mental hyperactivity... it doesn't have to be physical... in fact in girls that is usually more common, which is why they are frequently not diagnosed. And hyperfocus is very very common too with ADHD! There are so many people posting about ADHD online I find that really helps.

The shouting and screaming at me for what I now know was my ADHD led me to
get married at 17 and go NC with my mother not long after. Final straw was her saying if I couldn’t do just one thing then she didn’t want to speak to me. We haven’t spoken since and that was 45 years ago. That one thing was something I couldn’t for the life of me do and I saw her threat as a great thing as she rarely spoke to me. It was usually screaming and crying and despairing at what I had done wrong or not to her standards