To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

It's not a solution, but I'm afraid rather than make everyone late, I'd be supervising and assisting with everything.

So taking him to the bathroom, putting the toothpaste on the brush, standing there whilst he brushes his teeth, handing him his clothes and watching him dress. Putting his PE kit into his rucksack myself.

Basically you would be like a carer 24 hours a day, I can't see any other way.

My son is 15. About to do mock exams. I’ve only just got school to refer him for an ADHD assessment and everything you’ve said sounds exactly like him. He’s clever. He’s funny and he is hugely disorganised and cannot complete one instruction at a time. It’s been an absolute battle to make people understand that he isn’t trying to be a troublemaker, but he cannot focus in a classroom because he isn’t designed to sit still. It’s exhausting because I struggle to sympathise with him some days. Hyper focus is very much a thing if the activity is stimulating and enjoyable, but getting him to brush his teeth and pack his bag is a nightmare. I would seriously urge you to get him assessed. I so wish I had done it sooner for all our sakes.

Sounds like classic ADD
Why battle with him? Maybe he just hates school. Could you just unschool him?
Maybe if you’re constantly nagging him it’s making it even more difficult for him.

I have ADHD and what you are describing sounds exactly like me at that age. It still has a massive impact on my self esteem even now. I feel so stupid when I forget stuff and I've got the anxiety from my childhood bubbling up. Please please please get him assessed. Google right to choose ADHD assessment.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I really feel for both of you. It’s almost certainly adhd. I have it and never had the typical symptoms you would think. My memory is shocking, always has been. Even now as a grown woman with a family I have to make constant lists for everything and have real structure which sadly means getting up very early. But it works well for me and I get everything done. I started around his age with the structured day and it really does help

I get you're stressed. But the way you have ranted about your child is horrible. I hope he doesn't grow up to be a people pleaser because he felt like his mother couldn't love him unconditionally.

My son is AuDHD and has anxiety. He is in year 8. Some mornings I dress him to make sure he gets out on time. I find it hard because I want him to be independent. He's capable of so much more when he isn't anxious. But he is anxious. And my job is to scaffold for him because shame won't teach him anything. Children learn by us modelling. You're just showing your child how to blame everyone but yourself when things don't go as you expect them to.

Going off the superb length of your post and your obvious anxiety - you might be neuro divergent too. Your son without a doubt struggles with executive dysfunction. You should actually spend some time learning about how to support him with this instead of bitching about him to the world. Dr Russell Barkley is a good place to start. Your son very likely has ADHD and while he can learn well (back of the brain) - he can't use what he has learned (front of the brain).

Thank you again for your continued replies.
I've taken a bit of a battering from some of the responses, but in the main I've received some excellent and inspiring advice which I am truly grateful for. On the back of the good advice I've received, I have not stopped reading from various reputable sources about inattentive ADHD and related issues. My knowledge today is vastly different to my lack of knowledge on Monday.
I have talked to my DS every day this week after school, properly sitting down with a cup of tea for me and a hot chocolate for him and I have 100% focused on these things he is struggling with and we have really talked.
We always talk together regularly anyway, he's amazing at opening up to me and telling me all about his day and how he feels about things, and he has always told me he loves talking to me about things, but strangely, we have never talked about this.
Throughvtalking to him, I've learnt that lists don't work for him. In my naivity I thought it would help him if I put everything in to a simple list: 1. Clean your teeth 2. Brush your hair 3. Get dressed 4. Take your asthma inhaler, etc. Now I understand from him that a list of instructions is immediately overwhelming for him, no matter how simple each instruction is. Through giving him the opportunity to properly talk about why hes struggling, he has explained that with a list, any list, all he sees is words telling him to perform a load of tasks that he knows he's going to struggle with keeping focused on performing, so he instantly feels stressed and at once feels like he's failed the list before he's even started it. He also can't work through the steps because he's forgotten where he's got to. I had literally no idea this is how he was interpreting lists.
I have learnt from him that although he is a very good reader and read from an early age, he struggles to work through written tasks and information, for example in school work, because he has difficulties processing a lot of information. So I've realised it's nothing to do with reading ability and everything to do with processing what he's read.
I've learnt that when I ask him to do something, and he doesn't do it, it's not because he's just not bothering to do as he's asked, it's because he genuinely gets distracted on his way to doing it. And I've learnt that when he realises he hasn't done what was asked of him, he feels bad about himself for forgetting.
So together we've come up with a plan that I will give him 1 instruction, and we agree a time frame. He will go off to do it by himself because he has told me he wants to do some things on his own, he wants to feel he can do them, and I need to respect this, so the plan is he will go and do it and then come and tell me he's done it. Then I will give him 1 more instruction, and repeat. Only 1 thing at a time. We've agreed that if he doesn't return to me within the time frame we've agreed, then I will go and find him, gently get him back on track and stay with him to do it. Then we move on to the next thing. So we're doing that as of today.
I've learnt that school is draining for him. I've always known that he comes out of school looking exhausted every single day, and I've always asked him after school "Are you OK darling? You look ever so tired..." but he's always said "Yes mummy, I'm fine". But I've never been able to understand why he walks out of school looking drained whilst I see his peers bounce out of school raring to get to football practice whilst my DS asks to go home so he can relax. I took him to GPs about this as i worried he had low energy levels but nothing was picked up as being wrong. I spoke to school countless times and they always told me he was getting on just fine. I've thought for a long time that school overburdened his senses, but I've never fully understood why. Now I know that his brain is constantly working in overdrive all day every day trying desperately to remember everything he needs to remember and focus on his lessons and what the teacher is saying when he finds it so hard to focus. His brain is working 10 times harder if not more than the brains of the boys who come running out of school ready to play sport, and this is why he looks drained after school.
And that's another thing that I've always wondered about - my lovely boy who's fit and healthy and loves running around and cycling all over the place on his bike, has never ever been interested in joining any team sports. I put it down to maybe that's just not his thing. But now he's told me why: too many instructions. Too many rules. He can't remember what the coach said halfway through his instructions, so its easier to drop out and not play in a team sport with rules and instructions where other kids in his team have shouted at him in frustration when he's forgotten the instruction and got it wrong and stopped the team from scoring. I never knew this.
He's been recently having episodes of anxiety. I haven't been able to identify the cause of this, and neither has he. I have kept on asking him what ge is worried about, but he has kept saying he's not worried about anything, and that nothing new has happened to make him feel anxious. Now I totally get it and completely understand that dealing with all this every day would make anyone feel anxious.
I could go on with so many more things that I've learnt about this week, but this post is already too long.
In summary, I told him last night that I am working really hard to find a way to link my brain up to his brain so that our brains can work as a team together. I have told him I will support him in every way I possibly can to help make his life easier.
I have told him that I know he is trying so hard all of the time to get things right.
I've told him I'm so proud of him. I've told him that he is courageous and resilient and brave.
Next week, I will be talking to his GP and to his school, including teachers and SENCo.
I hope to get NHS help but if I have to work 100 hours overtime to afford private assessment, I will.
I have learnt so much this week, and I still have so, so much more to learn.
And for all of you who have given your help, advice, information and guidance, I am indebted to you all.
I have a beautiful child in my hands and I am going to do everything humanly possible to help him fly in his full colour and to reach his full potential.

P.S. And some things in the morning we will just do together always, every day, such as checking timetable, checking his bag. We have agreed what things he wants to try and do by himself with my 1 single instructions, and which things we will do together, side by side.xx

Executive dysfunction due to potential ADHD. I have one child definitely ADHD who struggles with this but would hate to be late and another non-diagnosed child who rushes at the last min and has been late a few times and couldn't care less. I think I'm also undiagnosed ADHD and my anxiety always made me so early. I would set off to school an hour early!? Now that in my late 30s I still have no concept of how long things will take and end up v early or rushing around (after being sidetracked) and I rely on Google maps a lot. I also used to really struggle getting the kids ready on a morning and it induced huge anxiety when I had multiple trips to make then work. I'm learning to let it go.

You sound like a wonderful mum OP. It doesn’t really matter how you got there, but you have! He sounds like a fantastic little boy. Together you will figure out how to make it work and find the right strategies. My little girl can’t work with multiple step instructions either - can you imagine how difficult this has been for him in the classroom? My heart breaks for them. Well done and I wish you both all the best x

I dont know if you're still reading but I just wanted to say your son sounds like such a lovely boy and you are doing a brilliant job of supporting him. I hope you are able to get an assessment and get the help and advice that make his future years happy confident ones. It's good you have realised now so hopefully he has mechanisms to get him through high school. Imagine if you hadn't how difficult it would be.

I hope your daughters assessment goes well and she's feeling better.

You're doing amazing, and so is your boy.

You’re amazing! And so is your son! Bless him. I have learnt a lot, from your last posts, about how my DS (dyspraxic and probably inattentive ADHD) feels when he sees a list or written task. Thank you. My son (who sounds identical in all respects!) hasn’t really put it into words yet so this has really helped me to understand. Please don’t rule out looking at dyspraxia as well. But a good educational psychologist or CAMHS will point you in the right direction for further assessments. All of these struggles are clearly leading to a wonderful bond between you and your DS. x

Sounds like you've worked together to come up with a really good starting plan. And I'm sure you'll both feel better now you both understand more about what's been going on. It's so hard with children and mental health conditions, I hope nasty comments haven't affected you too much, they most likely come from a place of ignorance. It seems the overwhelming amount have been positive and offering advice. I wish you and your son the best of luck and hope you can find ways to work through these struggles together.

Im so glad we made a difference.😀

You sound like a lovely mum.

This thread has helped me a bit. (42yo m )

Undiagnosed ADHD is constant anxiety because you just screw up by accident. But anxiety also creates adrenaline which leads to focus.

One way of getting myself up is by ‘shouting at myself.’ It makes anxiety, so I do better. But I try not to as it upsets my wife.

This made me realise I echo what I heard.

I couldn’t find my keys this morning so I started talking out loud:

’pull yourself together you useless c* you’d be better off dead, just go and kill yourself’

My wife overheard, and got really upset.

Then our Newfoundland jumped on top of her to try and comfort her, and started licking her ear.

Once I extracted her from the concerned dog, found my keys, (left in the car) and showed her the thread.

We understood why I shout at myself.

Your son will never do this, because you’re supporting.

I haven’t rtft but he sounds just like my eldest. He was referred for an ADHD assessment but they said it wasn’t. Eventually at my wits end I spoke to a parent support advisor at the school and she referred him to a speech and language specialist. Turned out he has communication and processing difficulties not picked up by school because he had a very good vocabulary. She gave us strategies to cope with it and as also got extra time in exams. Now at 19 it is barely noticeable.

How wonderful ❤️ so much respect to you, I wish you and your boy all the best, sounds like you’ve got yourselves on the right track 😊

I am new to mumsnet. Is it possible to alter ur original post? Because most people are only reading th original post and reacting to that and not seeing ur later posts

The brilliant thing here is he will talk with you and work at things to make them better. You seem to have got further in a week than we have in a few years even with a diagnosis! You are fabulous to work through those things so quickly

Op I have so much respect for you.

I hope you're able to get assessment on the NHS but think you probably are as well to go private. I'm in Scotland and 4. 5 years since my son was first referred and no further forward.

Although he seems not to be having as many issues as he did in the past.

What a wonderful mum you are and I loved reading your update! So happy that the helpful advise to your post has been of such benefit for you both and that you have been proactive in researching possible causes and possible solutions that work for you both. It's also lovely to see that your DS is able to talk to you more about how his brain is feeling and the emotions it causes him to have and that he feels seen and understood because you are working on being able to see him and understand his struggles. Together you will find a way that works for him and I hope you get the support you both need from school etc

This is my son.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/auditory-processing-disorder/

He also has adhd and sensory processing disorder

You're giving him too many instructions at once.

Try giving him one thing to do. Don't give him another instruction until he's finished the first one.

Same process for getting everything ready for the next day, have his bag by the door ready to grab and stand with him and check through it.

Sounds bonkers, but the more time I give my son to get ready the worse it is! He's in college now but when he was in secondary school I would get him up at 7:20/7:25. He has to be out the door at 7:45. It worked wonders

Oh and by the way, about the chapter books he's been reading from a young age.....I was told by his teachers that he was advanced in reading from a young age at school.
I didn't know until he told me this week whilst we were talking about things that he routinely gets to the end of a paragraph or page and has no idea what he's just read, even though he's read the words, so he has to go back and start again and really concentrate on what he's reading.
With all the read he's been doing for years, I never knew this.

Definitely sounds to me like he may have SEN. This very much reminded me of every school day with my Ds all the way through til he left..and then it was the same at college. Thank god now at 24 he can sort himself out for work every day. He was diagnosed aged 13 as being on the spectrum and this was probably the one thing we both struggled with the most. He never meant to not do what he was told..he was polite and obedient but he could not stay focused. I haven't read all the thread but for me..I was told when he was 4/5 that he wasn't SEN and we muddled through school. It took 2 years to get him diagnosed as thankfully his teacher recognised the signs and pushed for help for us.

You are a great mum, taking and listening will be so beneficial for you and him . ADHD has such an impact on self esteem, they can’t work out why the they can’t do things which is why being left undiagnosed is not an option.
Hes lucky to have you to listen to him, take some time for yourself too, the whole family can be impacted in so many ways. Now you’re on the right track hopefully and you’ll see things in a whole different way. Wishing you, your son and family all well.