To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

My son has ADHD and is like this! He can hyper focus on things he loves but needs simple one task instructions, like ’brush your teeth’ then in two mins check he’s brushing them not playing with the tap and has forgotten what he was supposed to be doing 🤦‍♀️ then I shout “TEETH!” And he says I was doing them 🙄 he’s also maniacally lively and energetic though and chatters non stop and bumps into things and forgets everything etc etc

Just wanted to add you sound a great mum and are obviously going ti work with him to make things easier - well done for taking it all on board and please don’t be hard on yourself or try to solve overnight ! Nobody has all the answers but a good will , love and care is a huge part of the battle !

@FluthyFeaffers

I read this post on r/parenting a few minutes ago and I think you might find it helpful. Posted the full text below:

How Our Family of Five Uses Alexa to Make Morning Routines WAY Less Stressful

tl:dr - Use Alexa Routines to create repeatable morning routines to make your family life easier - especially with parents/kids with ADHD.

Many of us are knee deep in starting new school routines and feeling TONS of frustration.

Why can't our kids get ready fast enough? How are we going to be late again?

And repeat...ad infinitum.

Last year, I made a post explaining how we use Alexa to run our morning routines for our family of five (kids W (7m), J (5m) and Ju (2f).

I'm a card carrying member of Club ADHD, and it's very likely my children are as well. So, you can imagine that our mornings are measured in magnitudes of chaos and disorder.

The previous post was so well received that I wanted to share some updates and the basic structure again to (potentially) make your mornings a little smoother.

What are Alexa Routines?

Alexa Routines are just that...routines you set to have Alexa perform various actions until your selected actions are all done. She can sing, give weather updates, do anything that Alexa can do on a timeline that you set.

The big reason we like to use Alexa is the following:

1. *Alexa is emotionless. I am not emotionless. I am emotion. But, with Alexa, there is no yelling, no raising voices. She just says and does what's in the routine. So much of the stress in the morning is everyone's emotions getting out of control around being late or getting items completed. (raises hand).*
2. *Alexa is repeatable.* Every M-F, this routine plays. Without fail. If I oversleep, if I'm in the shower, if I'm working, Alexa just chimes in at the perfect morning and gets us started. This is especially important for the 2-3x a week where my wife is traveling and it's very easy for me to get overwhelmed.
3. *Alexa is impartial.* Alexa doesn't care about my whining or my kids whining - she just confidently goes about her routine without care about who is late and why. It's no one's fault, just keep moving! It's snowing out and we have to ride our bike 30 minutes? Too bad, dress warm.

Routine Structure

We've toyed with the structure in the past, and the basic structure to use is:

1. Wake the kids up
2. Instructions for first step
3. Wait time
4. More steps
5. Wait
6. More steps
7. Reminder for x,y,z.
8. Walk off song (this helps to countdown the last few minutes)

-OUR ACTUAL ALEXA MORNING ROUTINE

"When it's" - 6:55am weekdays.

Alexa Will... (time in parenthesis is so you see spacing)

(6:55am) - Play WAKE UP by ARCADE FIRE on SPOTIFY (I vary this for fun)

(7:00am) -Announce: "Good morning W, J, Ju... It's time to get ready for the day!

• Wait 15 seconds

-Report weather (kids all walk/ride bikes to school)

• Announce: J - please remember to put on your glasses!-

Wait 7 minutes (They get dressed, screw around, wake up whomever is still sleeping).

(7:09am) Announce "Hi W, J, Ju...! It's time to go downstairs and get some breakfast if you are hungry."

-Wait 10 minutes

7:19am -Announce "Hi W, Ja, Ju..." It's time to wash up, brush your teeth, and take care of your hair."

-Wait 7 minutes - Usually we get behind here.

(7:26am)-Announce "Okay W...time to grab your things. Do you have your lunch? Do you have your backpack? Do you have your note? (We prep these things the night before and have them in their designated place, and I step in to help to make sure anything that is IMPORTANT is done).

-Report chance of rain today - (in case we need to grab an umbrella or wear our rain suit to ride bikes

-Wait 3 minutes (W is usually out in our entryway getting ready now if all stars align and J,Ju are causing general chaos)

(7:29am) -Announce - Hi W. Last check in this morning. Are you all set? Great job getting ready. Hope you have an amazing day."

-Play THE TIME IS NOW on Spotify. (This is W's current walk off song)

(7:30am) - W leaves

(7:35am) - Announce - Ok J, Ju - time to go out and get your shoes and coats on. J, make sure you check the temperature. (since he rides his bike and is particular about clothing when riding)

Wait

(7:40am) - Okay, J/Ju - last check in, great job this morning! Now, go get your helmets on and let's have a great day.

-Play THE KIDS AREN'T ALRIGHT on Spotify (J's choice for a walk off song)

And off to school we go...probably a minute or two late and maybe forgetting something BUT each day this structure helps put us on the right track.

Both my children are the same, my daughter is just getting better now at 16 years old. My son is 13. It Is exhausting, I suspect both may have adhd. I persued this for my daughter but we are still waiting for the process to progress further. There’s a huge waiting list to be assessed.

I am almost embarrassed to mention this, as it's so simple. I am no help with most of the organisation stuff, but one thing that works really well in our house on PE kit days is a little rectangle of paper, which I Blue-tack to the back door. It says, 'Have you got your PE kit?' I also have one for me that just says, 'LANYARD!'

Ridiculously simple, but it works for us. Sorry it's no help for all the pre-leaving faffing about.

You must know there is a degree of autism here. You must investigate

As many of the parents have said it, it might be ADHD- instead of shouting or losing your wits everyday, diagnosis and subsequently therapy sessions will help. Also, you being in the same room and getting him ready (have his tie, shoes, PE chart in his bag ready instead of you telling him 10 times) would help.
get up 40 minutes early and make him ready before the morning madness starts for rest of the siblings.

Exactly! This is the strategy that works!
the mom/dad has to do it with them while making them capable!

I don’t normally reply to these things but I had to on this occasion. You have just described my daughter, she’s nearly 11. She has ADHD. Please consider that this is not something he can control. No matter how much I ask my little girl to do something in the morning, and no matter how frustrated or upset I have gotten, it makes no difference. Her brain just works differently. Patience and love is the only way. Doesn’t help you getting told off at school or work, I know. But perhaps you need to get school on board and tell them what’s happening. Are you sure there’s no SEN? In terms of getting to school, can you move your timeframes forward by half hour? My little girl needs much more getting ready time than my other two. So I tell her to start the process of getting ready to leave about half hour before we need to. And I’m with her every step of the way while my other two watch tele. She can’t be left alone. Like your son, she’d be off distracting herself. Don’t beat yourself up, you’re going your best - sending love xx

Does he have ADHD?? Maybe you could read up on the symptoms and speak to the school.

This very nearly made me cry.

your son is absolute text book example of ADHD - this is me. My short term memory and working memory and executive function are so poor and I really really struggle. For years I thought I was a failure and shit

please listen to your child. He is telling you he’s struggling. Please don’t let him feel like a failure

This was me as a child - I know now that I have ADHD. I drove my parents mad with my slowness and disorganisation. Unfortunately, adhd was unknown then and they just put the problem down to excessive dreaminess/laziness, as did my school teachers. Their impatience and punishments felt very demeaning. However hard I tried to be different, I could never manage it and my self confidence was seriously affected.

My youngest son also has ADHD - that was his morning behaviour pattern too. After years of school difficulties and dropping out of uni for a year, he finally got the right medical and psychological support for him. I’m sure every case is subtly different. He’s now in his 30s, is on adhd medication and has found strategies for living with the condition. He’s got a great job and is in a very happy long term relationship.

Some of the advice on this thread sounds very good, in particular simplifying morning tasks to the max and staying with your son while he carries them out. Good luck! He sounds a lovely boy and popular with friends and teachers - having such a happy, attractive personality is a great gift.

Yes people with ADHD hyperfocus and that is one of the symptoms

I work at a SEN school, have to children with different SEN and all this absolutely screams ADHD (inattentive type)! I'd recommended doing some research on it and bringing it up with his school for potentially requiring observations be carried out in case a referral for assessment is required

I’ve now caught up on your replies. Yes my little girl is hyper focused on stuff too. Not hyperactive at all!! To be honest you could have been describing my girl. It’s a process - she was diagnosed with ADHD at four and it’s taken a long time to know how to best support her and know what strategies work. But I can 100% say that being calm and patient is the ONLY thing that works with her. All those times I lost my temper - I’ll never forgive myself! Our first step was going to the GP to get referred. School also got on board and helped contributing to the referral, they also called in an ed psych to evaluate her. This all led to her getting an EHCP. I hope you’re ok. Forgive yourself for losing it (we’ve all been there) and find a way to tackle it differently next time. It’s all you can do x

Hyper-focus is absolutely consistent with some children's experience of ADHD. My child can focus on their interests for hours to the exclusion of all else, but looses interest after one sock when asked to put on a pair. I'm not a psychiatrist, but I do have a child with severe ADHD, and in my experience your son's symptoms sound similar to those of someone who has ADHD.

Sorry to have to tell you but he has got SEN. It’s not just about his ability to learn stuff that matters. His organisational skills are important too. Speak to the school. Ask for help. They should be able to help him put some coping strategies in place.

I just wanted to say that you sound like a wonderful mum who is doing so much to support her kids.

Sure he's not got ADHD? Just that could have been my child I was reading about.

And i completly get why you lost it, so I'm not judging. I'm sure everyone's done it. Well done getting to 11 before you did 🤣 I got to 6!!! No one can be the perfect mum all the time. We are human and there's a lesson in this for the kids too. I think what's important, for both of you, is that as soon as possible you sit down and say you are sorry for yelling and explain to him that you were tierd and stressed etc and you lost your temper and you shouldn't have done, so that's why you are sorry. And I would urge you to discuss adhd or similar with your gp. My daughter literally sounds the same, really kind, bright, polite... But distracted in a second and even the same style as your boy! Good luck 😘

Former teacher here with husband and son, highly intelligent but both on ADHD spectrum. What you describe was my son in Year 7. I physically had to check his bag every evening to ensure he had everything he needed for the next day, lay his school clothes ready and go through the routine with him till it became embedded. Their mind does not work like ours, it’s like a computer with thousands of tabs open. My son is in his 40s now and is very successful. He was never and still is not medicated but uses exercise and healthy food to control his ADHD.

I wouldn't jump to adhd.

When he's wandered round in pants for 30 mins, what consequences do you impose?

Why did you go back for the PE bag? I'd have said gently "no DS. I reminded you a few times, you'll have to take the detention".

His primary school have trained him to think there's no real consequence to being late. You've reinforced that by taking consequences on the nose instead of him.

This'll be because you don't understand ADHD. He's wandering around in his underpants because he's unable to do anything else. I live this every single day with my child. We now have medication. I hope to fucks stops. The comments on here are beyond belief.

I feel for you. It sounds very stressful. Have you spoken to to doctors about it? It is clearly a huge lack of focus, does not sound deliberate. Scatterbrained at its greatest. I know that feeling, but never at that extent. I have a son who needs a lot of nudging about same things each morning and he is 4, I do wonder if it's going to be the same...

So I haven’t read all the replies as there are so many.

I would have said ADHD but it would seem that you are aware of that now.

I also think that you are doing too
much for him. Let him get that detention. It’s the only way he will be accountable for his actions is by getting the detentions. I did this with my daughter & she soon realised that I was going to support the detentions so the only thing that could change was her.

It’s not fair for your other children to be late or for you to be late for work because your son isn’t ready or he has forgotten something like his PE kit. One thing that worked for us was using a timer & now we much time they took over the time we needed to leave was then take off their computer time when they got in from school in the evening. They hated hanging around & waiting for 25 minutes to use the x box or whatever else they enjoy.

I work with SEN kids now & timers help us so much. Just your basic electronic kitchen timer. Set a timer to get dressed. Than to do his teeth. Then to leave the house & so on.

BTW you sound like a wonderful mother who is really trying to do the best by her children x

This is definitely consistent with ADHD. Inability to focus on "boring" tasks but hyper focused on certain interests. My son can't concentrate on eating, getting ready, going to the loo ect but is hyper focused on his interests. We have started using sand timers to help him visual time and if he gets all his getting ready tasks done with time to spare he can use the rest doing something he enjoys. Might be worth a try