To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

I am so pleased to read your updates that you have taken what everyone has said on board. Your son sounds very much like my 5 year old, who I suspect has ADHD but not in a way school would ever flag.
She absolutely cannot follow more than a one step instruction. I can't say , 'get your coat and put it on', I have to say 'please get your coat' and when she has done this, then say 'please put it on', everything has to be broken down, you could easily start by breaking things down into smaller chunks in a morning.
She is also very bright, very physically able, very loving and sleeps amazingly. But she hyper focuses on things, obsesses over one child in class etc.
Your son saying 'sorry for being me' broke me to read (for him and for you). As my daughter once said to me 'I am bad, I need to be better' and I can remember the exact way that broke me and made me change my approach.

Also I type a bit too fast and can't spell. Hook is school 🙄

ADHD. My combined type diagnosed son is exactly like this.

What's the answer though? The whole world isn't going to make allowances for adhd. People have to be able to learn to get organised to hold down jobs etc

Sounds like adhd to me.

Actually jobs will / should make allowances. Or you find jobs that work better with your skills and weaknesses.

You also find ways of making things work for you. That’s much easier a) when you understand WHY you can’t do things in the same way as others and b) when you’re old enough to actually have some autonomy (which the school routine / requirements isn’t great for, for obvious reasons)

So it sounds like he has ADHD, which is incredibly common and explains these symptoms. This is very much not deliberate and it sounds like he literally just needs support with each stage of his routine. Rather than rushing around yourself and constantly telling him, with you becoming increasingly stressed and the impact on the household spiraling, is it not possible for you to organise yourself earlier. Get up earlier, dressed and ready for work, and have half an hour to help him get ready? No point asking him repeatedly and leaving him to it, you may aswel literally just hand him what he needs. If he has PE put it in the bag and into the car where he sits the night before, put his uniform out the night before, give him a breakfast he can eat in the car on the way to school, brush your teeth while he's brushing his etc. It sounds like he needs more support than you are giving him, shouting and cajoling is simply not working so you might aswel give it up, and just save yourself the headache and him the upset by just accepting you need to give him physical help with these tasks.

Sorry for what you are all going through, it definitely sounds super stressful. It all absolutely screams that your son might have ADHD. I was exactly like him as a child and it is worse when you are stresses and being told, you dissociate . I also sympathise with his feelings of "Sorry for being me", having ADHD make you feel like so rubbish when people don't understand you. Would you be able to get some help any morning from grandparents or anyone who could help your youngest child whilst you do every step of the morning with your son with you being able to concentrate on him? If he is really like me, lista and ultimatums will only make him feel overwhelmed and he will have excecutive dysfunction and ADHD paralysis. Sounds like he just needs a lot of support to get the morning going as a routine. I wish you all the best.

You need to look at the ADDitude magazine on their website, full of really useful information. Also Shaparak Khorsandis Book. This sounds like my ADHD that only discovered as a 50 year old menopausal woman. My hyperactivity is mental not physical but I can really hyper focus.

This is so difficult because I am absolutely not surprised at your frustration and I’m amazed this is the first time you’ve yelled, but I do think overall you are being unreasonable. He has obviously had a problem for a long time. It’s one he recognises and you recognise. I hate that the school didn’t because they were blaming you, but you probably should have talked to them about it.

He needs a proper special needs assessment - being really bright and super-focused don’t mean he doesn’t have something causing this, and as it’s bad enough to distress your whole family he really needs help. But I feel for you and how hard this must be so much!

Yeah. He’s totally got adhd.

This is how we're managing with my DS, same age, who has diagnosed ADHD. He still forgets stuff, but it's not as bad as it would be and school are helping with strategies. You need to talk to school about this and don't rule out SEN, as others have said.

ADHD or Dyslexia were the first two things that sprang to mind for me, too.

With all due respect. I absolutely think he does have SEN.

This has 100% been me my entire life - i'm 37 now and although i've never been tested i HIGHLY suspect I am on the austistic spectrum.

I was a "free reader" by year 4, spelling was fantastic and my ability to recite obscure yet interesting facts was outstanding....couldn't tell you what I asked from the lunch lady that day though.

My maths was absolutely garbage and i will still struggle with basic times tables and numeracy but i was amazing at science and geography because "that's what i was interested in"

He sounds exactly like my DD14 who has ADHD and ASD

While he may have other issues going on I think for your short term sanity get all of this done before he chills for the evening, bag fully packed at the door, uniform hung up on his door. Pe bag on the car nigjt before etc
I know it's putting more on yourself but honestly it has to be better than what your having to handle now

You could be talking about my granddaughter. Now we know she is neurodivergent. They can’t do it. But, there is light at the end of the tunnel.
At about age 13 she started to get it

This is my daughter. She has adhd.

It’s a kid thing. All of mine have been like this. My son is 16 and I still have to constantly shivvy him along in the mornings but he’s 90% better than he was at 11! My daughter is great for getting up and ready on time but in the process leaves a trail of destruction in her wake. Again she got better once she starting a Saturday job and was mindful of the consequences of being late. Older daughter was the same, never on time for anything until she started her first teaching job and then organisation fell into place.

Not sure if Mumsnet allows YouTube links
But here is everything you need to know as a parent, he talks about the worst case scenario 9f each symptom, which most people aren't worse case across all of them, so don't let it be too depressing, cos it's really helpful.

Main thing is kids are about 30% behind in executive functioning, so though he is nearly 12, his organisational skills are going to be about that of an 8 or 9 yr old.

You need to be strict. No phone no tablet no ps5 no nothing in the morning or evening when he's prepping. Get him to sort EVERYTHING the night before so PE kit and school bag and shoes next to the front door . Remove all distractions from him. Get him up early so 6am earlier if needs be so he can shower eat and dress. He's used to it never been a problem and you are lucky you haven't had disciplinary action at work, if one of my employees were continuously late I would be furious.

He needs to learn and you need to be firm while he does

This sounds like me the whole way through school and it has followed me well into my adult life. I was always bright but never reached my potential because of my disorganisation. My mum used to shout at me and punish me and I feel so resentful now that she didn’t recognise that I needed support.

I see a therapist who suggested I probably am on the ADHD spectrum (without the H). As an adult I put things in place to help myself but it’s a real struggle.

I have 2 young children and I always get up half an hour before them so I’m ready and then I help them to organise everything they need because I never want them to feel the stress and anxiety I felt as a child. It might be worth reading a bit about this and seeing if you can find some strategies to help your son, especially when he seems to be crying out for help x

This describes childhood to a T and believe me I tried so hard to remember things, to be organised and to be on time but my brain let me down every time, my parents would be just like you, frustrated, couldn't understand why I couldn't remember, why I couldn't organised, why I got distracted and all the time I lived in constant turmoil. Not knowing how to be the child they wanted me to be and not understanding why I couldn't do these things as I was told i was bright and intelligent but rubish at maths. I would get lost and go to wrong classrooms all the time.

Then my son was born who is exactly like you described he is a nightmare in the morning. He doesn't remember anything. We got him diagnosed.

This is ASD. . Wether you choose to admit it or not it's glaringly obvious and there is no way he will ever be the child you want him to be unless you accept that his brain works differently.

Do some digging about ASD, speak to the Autisum / ADHD associations and ask your son what would make life easier and see if any of there strategies can help but most of all don't blame him or berate him for being the way he is, it's frustrating for you but it's heartbreakingly difficult for him. I've lived it.

I just read your most recent post, your son is so lucky to have a mum like you, who wants to learn and support him. I feel like my whole life would have been so much happier and easier if I’d had that sort of support as a teenager x