To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

My youngest has learning difficulties and ASD. As a a example which may work for you, we used to lay out his uniform in the utility room (not as many distractions) and did something called backward chaining - so his uniform was laid out in a line and he had to put it on in order. Then we put the last 2 things in a pile so he followed the order and had to do the last 2 himself. When he got used to it it was the last 3 etc, until he didn't need it anymore. He couldn't wander round as we shut the door and introduced a timing device he had to beat. We had to use short sharp language with him - I. E. Name "shoes" to get him to do his shoes (with elastic laces). It's like talking to a dog (which sounds awful but it's what it like) . He can't cope with multiple instructions or too much language. It took years but he now gets himself dressed, although I still keep multiple sets of uniform in those sets of plastic drawers you can buy. So he goes and opens Monday's box on Monday etc. He still needs short sharp instructions one at a time though. It's a work in progress with most things and it takes a long time to work through.

My eldest has dyslexia and executive functioning issues. He is very disorganised and always leaves things to the last minute. He is awaiting an ADHD assessment. He is super intelligent but lacks common sense and an ability to plan and organise. He is on SEN register at school also.

You sound really supportive of both your kids (and I completely get how hard it is) so I think you now have another fight on your hands to get your son the right support. Good luck with it.

While assessing my daughters possible adhd (and therefore mine!) and looking back on my childhood… I have realised my mum used to make us get ready for school as soon as we were up.

Completely ready bags by door and shoes on, teeth cleaned all before breakfast… my friends poke fun at me now for having to clean my teeth before breakfast… but now I think it was to make sure we had a tangible target! Or using that just woken up dozeyness to get on with it!

Breakfast can be rushed and gobbled on the way to school but is also something you want to do in the morning!!!

OP i apologise for my earlier comment and its tone. This is one of those times where i really should have RTFT before posting.

Adhd? Staying up too late?

Right, say he does have ADHD, Or other neurodiversity, then he needs support... just like a child with another disability or condition needs support. You wouldn't take away any other disability aids just because they are 12.

It's hard to think of organising things as a disability aid. I've two autistic children. One couldn't pack their own bag when they were 12, now they are packing two school bags. Things might improve, they might not and support needs to be given for longer.

I suggest:

booking to see the Sendco at school to discuss his needs.

Seeing your GP for a referral for assessment for ADHD.

Setting up more support for him at home so you get to work on time.
(Yeah, right, we've not cracked this yet, however early I start someone can't be shifted)

This sounds SO much like my DS who I suspect has ADHD (I'm recently diagnosed myself) and despite the fact I know he's probably like me and how his brain works , it is really hard not to lose patience when we're late for the millionth time because he's been upstairs "getting dressed" for 20 minutes and he's still in his pants reaarranging his toys. It's a work in progress trying to understand how to help him not hinder him, not aided by the fact that I struggle to create the structure that would help him (because...ADHD!)

I realise I'm making a big leap here @FluthyFeaffers , but do any of the symptoms chime with your own experience? I mention it because ADHD often runs in families and parents (women particularly, whose symptoms can often be missed) frequently come to realise they have ADHD when their own children are diagnosed. Your stream-of-conciousness writing style is giving me ADHD vibes - obviously I could be way off the mark!

My DS was diagnosed last year privately. It took about 6 months from me calling up the psychiatrist's office to the initial meeting (online) and filling in the forms and her contacting the school for their responses etc to diagnosis. We are so so lucky to be able to do it. The total cost was around £1200 from memory. A bit less I think). But that might have included some of the early medication reviews etc as our GP does not prescribe for ADHD patients or monitor them and we initially had to do that privately as well.

It;s not the point of this thread but I am going to say it anyway- i was so reluctant to medicate. But medication has worked so well for my beautiful boy. He still needs alot of support of course- but it's like the medication has revealed who he is in within. He's calmer, less anxious.

Lovely post OP about seeing and understanding your son.

Meds work in around 2/3 of cases as well but they do often have side-effects.

If you want to investigate ADHD diagnosis its usually via GP who refers to paediatrician to diagnose using connors2 questionnaires for home and school.

So pleased its making more sense to you and him - that is the first and most important step. Well done!

Not just small children, it happens to me and DS (13). DH has been known to break into the hallelujah chorus when we pass the threshold.

My DS is similar to this and he has dyspraxia. He’s the year older than your DC and is finding it harder to get organised the more the homework and activities mount up.
I have to be super organised to help him.
I put his breakfast in front of him & go get ready myself & wake my younger DC.
I lay out his uniform for him
help him with his tie
I’ve printed out his timetable & attached it to his shelf his books are kept to make it easier for him to pack his bag
i put his bike outside & lay out his shoes & helmet.
I keep watch on his homework app & remind him which night he needs to do what ( he gets overwhelmed when he sees lots of things so can’t prioritise) so I’ll say, just do your maths today etc.
when he has stuff to remember in school I text him a list : remember coat. Hand in Art. That sort of thing.
he isn’t doing it on purpose, he just needs things broken down in to smaller manageable things I’ve found. He’s also pretty ace in other ways as I’m sure your DC is too.
i call on school for ideas & support too as his test results weren’t reflecting his ability when asked directly in school.
I don’t know if anything here is helpful. I hear you that’s it’s frustrating.

Sounds very similar to my younger sister who at 26 recently paid to get assessed and has been confirmed to be autistic, the hyperfocused on certain things but distractible and inability to focus on others was very like her so it's possible that this could be the case I hope yous figure something out to help your mornings though

I didn’t even read your whole thread and it’s ADHD is blaring out at me. X

100% ADHD.
the fact that he can also hyper focus just confirmed it for me.
this is also the same as my
son. He’s 8. Mornings are a nightmare, I lose my mind everyday. He is bright and clever, outgoing and school have no issues. But at home he is distracted walking from his bed to bedroom door. He cannot concentrate or remember anything unless he is genuinely interested in it.
it’s very frustrating because I have the same morning issues as you. Trying to get 2 kids to school on time and me to work. I still shout but I also, get his uniform out for him and put his bags at the door and I remind him every 5 minutes what needs to be done next. It’s exhausting but it’s all we know so it’s normal for us. You can’t just give him an instruction and expect it to happen, it won’t, you need to be there doing it with him or stood reminding him.
Checklists help but that’s just another thing for me to monitor. But yes, definitely definitely ADHD!

Your son is very lucky to have you. Neither school nor my parents made any attempt to help me with such issues.

He has ADHD

Can you get him to get everything ready the night before, put it out or in the car ready., even blazer & tie if that’s an issue. All he has to think about in the morning is getting himself dressed. Have breakfast last then if you are running late, he’ll have to eat on the go? Might help him in cutting down all the things to remember if he’s overwhelmed with it.

Well. This thread has been an eye opener. I have a very similar year 7 ds, and the past three weeks of the new school has been hell. He’s gone from being a happy, enthusiastic child getting top marks in everything to crying every day because he can’t cope. Losing his timetable, losing folders, forgetting his stuff, being late to lessons. I was hoping he would just gradually learn to be more organised, but this thread has made me realise there might be more to it. I thought he was just lazy and failing to take responsibility for himself.

It’s been suggested previously (by a friend - school were sceptical) that he’s probably dyspraxic. I never thought of ADHD because his cousin has it and she’s completely different - she’s hyper organised, not chaotic.

I also see both myself and dh in a pp’s description of an inability to get on with boring but necessary tasks until I’m up against a wall. E.g. I haven’t invoiced a client for two years because I hate doing invoices. Dh gets fined regularly by HMRC for not filing stuff he needs to submit. Sometimes I sit at the breakfast table all day because I don’t want to get the washing out of the machine but can’t move on to the rest of the stuff I need to do because I haven’t hung the washing. I’m stuck.

I have a lot of research to do.

💐 for op, your frustration and pain resonates with me so much

Came to reiterate what others have said. Definitely not neurotypical, sounds like ADHD. Need to try other ways of doing things, everything ready the night before, up earlier too I'm afraid. You sound like you might need a bit of help.

Hey 👋 so my girls autistic and I don’t know much about adhd but my sister has it and she’s forgetful and obsessive and gets distracted. It is a possible that he could have slipped through the net, has happened.
while I understand your frustration completely and I know it isn’t as easy as this at the end of the day, Works not as important as your children’s well-being I straight up told my boss on interview my child comes first I don’t care if they have no cover.

mayve consider going to Sen and seeing if you can get on the pathway, I kinda feel for him as he clearly has stated an issue in himself that’s brave and lovely.
big hugs 🤗 momma you’re trying your best xx

He sounds like me.

I have mixed-type ADHD.

I think you've done everything any mum would do and now it's time for a different approach. I would treat this as a problem that your very sweet sounding son has and that he needs some outside help with. As others have said, look at ADHD, although I live in the US and too many times kids are handed Ritalin......but you're in the UK so that won't be the case. Ask the school. Seek advice. Some of it is of course normal but you both need help to find a new way of tackling it. The last thing anyone wants is for him to feel bad about himself. That's not going to help you or him (not that that was your intention). If it were me I'd probably do more for him until he finds a way to do it himself....it's a balance of all of these things I think. Good luck!

Yes it absolutely is. Omg is absolutely is. I went through a hook like an idiot. I was bright but just enough to get by, I was well behaved I even had a tidy room and was well out together. My youngest was diagnosed with autism and ADHD. I now realise I have it. I was the undiagnosed one. I'm convinced my eldest also has it. Please start the process to get him diagnosed.

@mikulkin I am sorry if this has been mentioned already on here, I have read loads of the comments but not all, but do you mind if I ask how you go about getting diagnosed if your child isn't presenting in a way that is causing school issues yet like you said with your son? I strongly suspect my son who is 12 to be neuro divergent but if he is, he is highly functional. I have also gone down the route of, it isn't causing him issues so it's not important but I am worried that as he gets older, and when exams come about, that he may struggle more. With waiting lists so long I wonder if I should push more but I don't know how?

He has a form of ADHD. Not all
children are wild and hyper. My daughter says she has about 10 different things going on in her head at the one time. She’s 25. Has struggled with this her whole life

I would agree, with the SEN comments, if a kid has a low working memory they can’t remember to do a,b,c all at once. My son has a really poor working memory and dyslexia but if someone has told me without the test that he has a poor working memory I wouldn’t have believed them.

For your sanity I’d get yourself up earlier so you can help him more and maybe create a laminated checklist for each day so he has a list of what to do and maybe a timer with a reward when he’s back and organised. It’s hard work but I would consider getting him assessed.