To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

Agree with other with regards to ADHD

Try a visual chart every morning.

You described a typical morning for me too with my DD . It’s so frustrating but they just have a different way of thinking to us and I’ve accepted that now and things might be a bit slower .

Some simply things in place could change your whole morning . It’s hard I’m with you but you’ve got this one !

Op so pleased for you about your latest update. You sound like an amazing mum.. Keep doing what you are doing!!

Sorry, I keep chipping in as I think of things.
This chip-in is about time. Only going on my own internal feel, but clock time and the visuals of a clock to gauge activity is/are not and has never been very helpful.
Pacing, coupled with the 'Do X Now (while you see it happens)' concept, can be helpful - like: "you can read 4 pages and then stop;" "You can play this song and be dressed in your uniform by the end of it." It gives you a kind of physical feel of things, a sense of having a stop or break point, and something that could build a habit that mostly works.

Wonderful so happy for you both !

Your post has made my day and is much better written than I could have done especially the last paragraph .

Best wishes for you both.

I just wanted to say that while a diagnosis can help, somewhat, ameliorate the parental anger, it doesn’t help with the practicalities of actually getting out the door.

We have a two-parent tag team keeping ds on track with 10 minute reminders and milestones (eg by 7.10 you need to be in bathroom, 7.20 you need to be dressed, 7.30 you need to be sitting at kitchen table). It’s exhausting. Everything has to be thought out, right down to pre-tying his tie (by me) and laying out the right shade of socks next to the trousers or they won’t be seen. PE day means PE kit fully prepped and sitting in front of door so you can’t leave house without tripping over it AND a coloured post it note on the door.

My DS has very poor executive functioning and various other diagnoses and the biggest hurdle for me to overcome was that while when I was 14 I was caring for two siblings and cooking dinner for the whole family, my 14 year old needs help packing his pencil case and buttering toast. It’s a heartbreaking realisation.

This thread is Mumsnet at its best and how it should be. Kudos to you OP for listening and taking on board all the advice you have been given even though it contradicts your original assumptions. You sound like a lovely Mum doing the best for your DC and I wish you all the luck in the world on your journey to understand your son better.

Hi, I haven’t read all the comments but I have read your replies and it seems like you’ve got some great advice.

I felt very emotional reading your post. I have been just like your son all my life, and I promise I am genuinely sorry, deeply sorry every time I say it. I have been so sorry that I can’t make myself be like other people. It has been a source of great shame my whole life, and had a horrible impact upon my mental health and self confidence. The consequences of forgetting something /being late/ dropping a ball absolutely terrify me but I keep doing it over and over again. But now I’m
also you, I’m trying to teach my children skills I’ve never had, and one of them is so much like me in that regard that I fear for her. And it is so frustrating at times, I have the most stressful day of work ahead and we just cannot get out the door.

You’re obviously a wonderful mother. You’ve taken on board what’s being said and I think making this post will be a blessing to
you both. Just keep fill up his cup with love, and kindness. He’ll need that kind inner voice when he’s an independent adult.

All of this is quite extreme and beyond ‘forgetfulness’. My 6 year old if told to do x/y/z needs nagging but not anywhere near
to this extent.

He is also literally telling you he needs help as he can’t remember short term and is struggling listening.

I think maybe you go to the GP to discuss it as best addressing it earlier rather than later so if he needs support you can get him that before it impacts his learning.

Good luck.

I was thinking the same !!! I’d chat to school, for what it’s worth , it dosent sound deliberate

Sounds exactly like my son - finding out he had ADHD once he was at Uni made so much sense of the school years…. Hyper fixation and complete inability to focus oddly go together. Even just knowing the diagnosis has helped him as he knows he has to concentrate on particular areas.

So your kid is very obvious neurodivergent and yet you haven't got him help? The fact you said he has not got SEN and is very bright is just ableist as if the two are linked in anyway.

Get that kid his diagnosis now before he feels any worse about himself then he already does.

Just read your last post OP, lovely message. I think you sound like a fab mum and your son is super lucky.

Listen Op, I am late diagnosed ADHD. This is me. This is my son. Let me tell you that it knocks your confidence to the core. The feeling that no matter how hard you try you just can’t get on top of basic tasks. It’s executive function and is a hallmark of ADHD. ‘Good’ kids with adhd very often get overlooked.
repercussions will not work. The ONLY thing that might work is making everything you can into a game or competition. Timers.
very clear instructions that he completes before moving to the next task.

I haven't read every comment but this is My Yr 7 12 year old to a T. However, he is diagnosed with ADHD, I do his backpack for him and he has his alexa and myself with the reminders (he generally ignores), its easier for me as I only have him now. I'm organised so he should be ready 15 mins before he has to be to allow for his forgetfulness.

I think to make life easier you should consider doing his backpack woth him ensuring its all done and ready by the door the evening before. Because as much as you believe he should be more independent he clearly can't do it.

My addition:
So I've now read your updates and I think he is a very lucky boy to have you. You will both get this.

Good luck

Dear OP
I just actually signed up for an account with mumsnet only to be able to reply to your message. Being able to hyperfocus for hours on things you enjoy is a major symptom of ADHD. I have ADHD. I’m a classical musician, I play in a top tier orchestra in Germany and I can practice and focus on very difficult things for hours on end because it’s something I enjoy. I however find it extremely difficult to do a weekly shopping at the supermarket and get all the things on the list. If I have one of my kids with me also distracting me it’s basically impossible. I don’t think I ever leave the house in the morning without going back in 3 times for things I forgot. However I can play a 4 hour Wagner opera without missing an entry.
my daughter has similar struggles in the morning to your son. Things that have helped us - putting out the next mornings clothes on the stairs on the couch in the morning to immediately put on after getting up. Toothbrushes in the kitchen to brush teeth over the kitchen sink where I can see she’s doing it or doing it together. A post-it on the door with a check list of things to take. Packing school bag the night before going to bed. And most importantly - eating breakfast LAST after everything else has been done. And if you’re still running late then breakfast is a banana in the car on the way to school. Also gamefication is a major game changer with ADHD.
Hang in there! Your son sounds like my daughter, dreamy and forgetful but absolutely wonderful with an amazingly creative innerlife. Don’t forget- there are strengths to having ADHD too and laser like focus is one of them!

I have one of these- just started year 8. I did all the things you’ve tried- none of it worked, just caused tears , frustration and anger.
mine too has all the positive traits you describe- all he wants is to do well.
so I changed tack completely- I’ve acknowledged his brain isn’t working at the same speed as mine. So I do a lot of the organising. Bag unpacked after school, pe and other things for next day packed.
I even untie his shoelaces so they are ready to go straight on in the morning. I’ve now given him less time in the morning and very few things to do/ remember. He gets up, eats gets dressed/ clean then picks everything up and leaves.
he starts the day on a good footing.
I will keep on with the education of self organisation and all the tools and tricks he needs but for now this is where we are and things are a lot smoother.

Hyper-focus is an ADHD symptom

Literally made an account to comment here because I burst into tears reading your first post and early comments, remembering myself at that age and the genuine trauma I have as an adult because of how similar my mum was to you. I’m so glad you’re looking into it more and willing to try and understand your son. Mine never did and as an adult, I’m still occasionally absolutely crippled with the stress of how my adhd affects me. I know adhd symptoms can be frustrating for the other people, but please, please, always remember, it’s so much more distressing for the people who have it. Know that your son has probably felt trapped in his own mind for two years, struggling against something that people are screaming at him that it should be easy, wondering why he just can’t do what everyone else can. Show patience, remind him you love him, remind him that he’s not broken or wrong because he’s struggling. It’s like telling a paralyzed person to walk, the adhd brain simply cannot do the same things that a neurotypical mind can. Your son is trying, and it sounds like he’s spent the last two years hating himself for failing you - ‘sorry for being me and not being able to do this’ hit hard. It sounds like you love him a lot - that can be hard to remember when you can see people getting frustrated with you, so please always take care to make sure he knows.

edited to add: hyperfocus is the absolute calling card of adhd. I can sit and play a video game for literally 14 straight hours, and can concentrate on my job or tidying up for about 30 seconds before I forget what I’m doing and get distracted.

Are you sure no SEN?

That's beautiful ❤️

People who struggle talk about being "seen" or understood. It's a lovely analogy that you have used, that fits very well to how many neurodiverse people feel. You should feel proud of yourself. His best chance to learn coping strategies will be with support. He'll probably get much better but it will be slow

Sounds exactly like my son who is 13 and ADD. Hyper focus is something that commonly occurs within this.

We have a bullet list. We also have to keep him on track every 5 mins as he is so much the same as your son it made me want to cry. It is stressful with everyone trying to leave the house by 10 to 8 on school days.

At least here I have DH to help so we tag team on the - have you finished breakfast/cleaned teeth.

We prep as much as poss the night before - PE kit is waiting by the door. Timetable is attached to school bag - laminated and carabina to clip it.

Get up at 6.30. He has set times to do things e.g. out of shower and dressed ready for breakfast by ten to 7. Getting ready to leave early. 7.30 checks - teeth, face, clothes tucked in/collar sorted. Coat on. Leave yourself 10 mins spare if poss. Aim to leave early, then that gives time for mishaps. Tick list = big poster by the door - have we got everything you need?

I strongly suspect I am ADD as well, and have always struggled with time blindness and distractions in terms of being on time. I always feel I have more time than I do. When DH worked away when DS was younger, I was often in tears trying to leave the house, hoarse with shouting. I feel your pain.

Hyperfocus is absolutely a feature of ADHD.

I suggest you get everything ready with him the night before - check everything is in his bag that he needs, including pe kit etc and beside door ready to go. Uniform set out the night before. In the morning he gets up, washed, dressed, cleans teeth before he does anything else, then breakfast and leave.

I know it is frustrating OP, but he isn't doing it on purpose and he obviously can't do this by himself yet. With my son, constant reminding and putting pressure on him actually causes him more stress and anxiety and makes his executive function even worse.

For the posters advising the OP that ADHD assessment times are very long and to go privately if possible, could I please ask how long it took for your child..from form filling to diagnosis and when this was? I have heard the horror stories of years-long lists but the senco at my kids school told me last week that while ASD assessment and diagnosis is taking years, adhd is much faster…18 weeks. Is she just bullshitting?

Sounds like ADHD tbh. He is having serious working memory and executive functioning problems. I would arrange a meeting with your child's SENCO / SENDO in school and see if anything has been picked up on, I can guarantee you these behaviours are being seen at school too. Your child is crying out for support. Alternatively, he could have issues with auditory processing; he hears you but doesn't actually process the instruction. Incredibly frustrating and I totally get why you lost it, but I would see this as an opportunity to repair and have a conversation with him about how he is struggling, then seek further support.