To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

OP, that's great. It is so wonderful for him to have you on his side.

He can hyper focus on things though.
He can spend hours focusing on things that he's interested in, or is enjoying.
To me that's not consistent with ADHD, is it?

It is a core ADHD trait.

Sounds exactly like my eldest DD who now 19 on a very long waiting list for ADHD assessment. She's definitely the Inattentive type with the random hyper days. Still jobless after struggling through school and only managing 1 year of college. I hope you can get the help your son needs.

I am guilty of the heinous crime of NRTFT but I agree. My son has inattentive ADHD and this is him exactly. He is nearly 14 and I ended up laminating a bullet point list of what he needs to do each day that he can use a wipeable marker on it. It's still very miss, but things are better, even though he is now medicated and this has been brilliant. If it is ADHD then your DS literally cannot help it. You can only assist and put tools in to help him.

and now I have read all the OP posts and am clearly very late to the party.

But really really GOOD ON YOU. ❤

I haven't read the whole post but I can see you mentioned he doesn't have SEN. Have you researched ADHD? The distraction and forgetfulness all hallmark symptoms. As it's clearly been affecting his everyday life for years now, I think this is something you should look into. Good luck.

My sister has diagnosed ADHD and can focus wonderfully on things she really finds interesting. It’s called hyper focus. However getting her shit together in the morning is a nightmare! I’d query SEN for your son.

Your child has ADHD. Make appointments with the school SENDCO and your GP and start the process of getting some help. Good luck OP.

Aw OP that's a shit situation.

Sounds just like ADHD to me.

You have to do EVERYTHING humanly possible the night before. And get up earlier. But: don't make your other child late.

You are not being unreasonable at all and I have exactly the same thing. I think other people are also flagging this up but my son behaves in exactly the same way and he has ADHD. Have you considered looking into a diagnosis? He will continue to struggle with school etc if he has an issue that is not recognised.
From another mum who said put your shoes on 800 times this morning xx

OP you’re wrong and this screams textbook ADHD. Especially the executive functioning issues and good long term memory vs terrible short term memory.

He needs your help! Shouting will get you nowhere.

He obviously still needs verbal prompts, a visual checklist he can tick off and timers to keep him on track. I’d help him pack his bag and make him a checklist for it. I’d talk to school because he may be having issues there too. You are being hugely unreasonable for not giving him any support and just shouting at him.

There is a really good book on ADHD called Driven to Distraction. Reading this was a turning point for me and my DS.

It most definitely sounds like executive dysfunction. Yelling does not 'fix' it.

You dont need a SEN diagnosis to have it, it can occur in anyone. I think mine is heavily effected seasonal affective disorder far more than my diagnosed neurological issues.

I have an INCREDIBLE long term memory (I can remember being a toddler like it was yesterday) but a virtually non existent short term memory which means I can't learn routines. My life is plagued with pauses of 'wait, what was I doing? why am I in this room again?' and 'oh, shit I was suppose to do x,y, z... 3 hours ago'.

Imagine yelling at an Alzheimer patient for forgetting what they are doing, its basically the same thing. We don't choose to get confused.

As they say, parent the child you have in front of you, not the one you wish you did. It sounds like he WOULD do the morning routine if he could. But he can’t. And telling him to isn’t working. So you will have to help him more - get up earlier so there’s more time, support him in actually doing the things so he gradually develops the habits over time. Yes it’s probably annoying, but 11 is no age at all, and they’ve undergone a huge transition to secondary school. Give the poor kid a break.

I can only list a few of the things the SEN teacher I worked with years ago taught the year 6 children in her group.
Uniform on one hanger. Tie is already tied so he just slips it over his head and tightens. Socks inside shoes.
Bags needed are already in car, he puts them in previous evening.
All distractions removed — no TV on, no tablet, no phone in reach.

He sets his breakfast place the night before, cereal ready on the table.

Then his list is dress, eat breakfast, clean teeth. Do you have a downstairs loo? If so have a second toothbrush, toothpaste in there for him. This way he can’t wander around upstairs. He brushes teeth and goes straight to the car where he checks his list ( already in car) against what is already there.

Yes he sounds textbook ADHD OP.

My DS is nearly 8 and has ADHD. On a school morning he has to get dressed straight away, before coming downstairs. I don’t tend to have to stand over him anymore as he’s well practiced but if he starts playing in his room first I have to intervene. I hang his uniform up so all he has to do is get a pair of pants and socks.

He has breakfast (I make this, even cereal) I then brush his teeth for him downstairs (I used to let him do it but the dentist said he wasn’t doing it properly) and then he gets his shoes on so he’s ready to leave. It can still be difficult to make the transition from the house sometimes, but I will go full drill sargeant if I need to. We’re never late because I do have a lot of input still, probably more than a lot of 8 year old parents have to.

I pack my DS’ bag for him, if he has anything extra such as a permission slip or reading book to give in, I remind him by getting his attention, reminding him to give it in and showing him what it is as I put it in his bag. He sometimes forgets but it gets done eventually. I leave his coat out for him so he puts it on.

A lot goes missing, coats and water bottles. I can imagine in secondary school this will get really frustrating as at the moment costs at least with his name on tend to make their way back.

Your DS isn’t doing this deliberately, I know he’s nearly 12, and you probably have a lot on with your DD having SEN as well, but he needs your input more than you might expect a 12 year old to need. Parent the child you have, not the one you expect.

I haven't read the full thread yet, but this sounds like my daughter who has dyslexia, but she isn't quite as bad as this. She also has a poor short term memory.

She is year 8 and will make sure she gets to school on time. She has decided she has to be at certain points in her journey by a set time, and so therefore has to leave by a set time to do that. If she doesn't leave on time she will panic do if that means she doesn't have time for breakfast, or hasn't brushed her hair properly she will go anyway.
Luckily most things are still in her her bag From the day before, and the pe kit is left nearby so only that and the lunch to add.

However, school is at the same time each day. She can't do the same when going anywhere else so never leaves on time.

She will ask when she needs to leave, and I will give her a time, then suggest when she needs to do each of the things by to be ready, but it doesn't happen, even when written down.

You mentioned being good at reading and spelling but not being good at maths. May be worth looking at info about dyscalculia.

I think it is definitely worth looking into whether there is some form of additional need in some way.

I have a formal diagnosis of OCD. (Obsessive ruminations, etc.) Got that in my 30s. Now in my 60s and it's been suggested I might have ASD and ADHD.

I joined a FB neurodivergency group and folk on there tell me that hyperfocus goes hand in hand with ADHD - which would explain a lot about me.

One member of my family got a formal diagnosis of Asperger's in the 2000. [Once that was in place the behaviour of many of our family members made much more sense.] I've worked with kids with ASD and ADHD - I was a secondary school teacher - and now that I think of it, I've seen hyperfocus with all of them.

To all those giving OP a hard time, stop and read ALL of OPs posts. She already gets up at 0530, gets her son’s uniform and school bag etc ready the night before. She does everything possible to help her child. Give her a break!

I have ADHD. I make a “ready station” the night before which is a single place in the hallway with everything I need to get ready and leave the house. Bag, clothes, toothbrush (not in the bathroom), just a cup to spit in. Then I wake up, go downstairs to eat breakfast then go downstairs again to my ready station and leave the house.

If I have things in different spaces and rooms like breakfast in the kitchen, clothes in the bedroom and toothbrush in the bathroom, I end up wondering around the house getting distracted and just going up and down the stairs forgetting what I was doing next.

I prep my ready station the night before and have a checklist so I don’t forget to put everything there. It’s a weird concept but it’s the only thing I’ve found that lets me get somewhere on time. Maybe your son could do something similar. I find having my ready station in the hallway with no other distractions also really helps.

Just adding here - a family member has dyslexia and just got his diagnosis of ADHD. He's got his degree now, but did get a lot of support from family members and had a very good SENCO at secondary school.

This screams ADHD to me.

I can TOTALLY understand your frustration but you need to be looking deeper into what's causing him to be that way and find coping strategies that work for him (and you).

Hyperfocus is definitely an ADHD trait. He could even have combined ADHD & autism.

There's two forms of ADHD as well. Hyperactive and inattentive. He could have one or the other or a mix of both.

Please have him assessed. There's even medications available.

OP,
you sound like a fab mum.

bright children are rarely picked up in primary school.
It is only as the issues around secondary school and indepedence start to hit that it becomes clearer.

Don't beat yourself up. Understanding what it is gives you both a chance to say - you are not being deliberately careless, your brain works differently, lets find things which will help.

Some kids with ADD do respond very well to medication. My dd's boyfriend foudn that days with medication worked and days without left him feeling drained and exhausted and constantly in trouble for things forgotten etc.
For him it was the difference between getting through school and dropping out.

Write down a list of the things he can't do. Don't sugar coat it.
Include hyperfocus.

Go to your GP and ask for a referral.

You're description of your son's behaviour is absolutely classical for ADHD. Working memory is often poor, but long term memory is good. Hyperfocus on things that interest you but inability to focus on things that don't interest you is the hallmark of ADHD. Bright children can often mask their difficulties through school because of the structure of school life. My ADHD wasn't diagnosed until I was 37, although the signs were always there (I just didn't realise they were features of ADHD).

Read about coping strategies for ADHD and see if there's any that might help your son. And think about getting him on the waiting list for assessment - it's likely to be a long wait so the sooner he joins the list the better. My life has been transformed since my diagnosis and starting medication and I wish I'd known about it earlier.

You say he doesn't have SEN. I disagree. I am an education professional and this SCREAMS ADHD. You say hyperfocus isn't consistent with ADHD - it totally is! You say you think he has listening problems, this could entirely be auditory processing issues as part of ADHD.

This child needs assessing by a professional. Hope you get an answer soon.