To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

If its any consolation to the ADHD parents despairing at their kids in the morning..

DS isn't in college today, this morning i got DD up at 7.15, and then i got distracted. I made us late as i have no idea what i was doing for the next hour, but didn't start getting dressed until 8.15 (we have to leave at 8.20) and still needed to make her lunch... she was the one yelling (nicely) at me to put my phone down and get my shoes on at 8.20 while i was being distracted filming the dog doing something the vet needs to see... 😬😅

I am no expert and I know we shouldn't diagnose over Internet. But from what you are saying, this sounds like high functioning autism or adhd. Sounds like he isn't doing this on purpose. You are doing your best. Don't feel bad for yelling that time. Go get some support or advice. In the mean time maybe you have to get up early with him and get him ready before you get ready yourself and then last get the younger ones ready?

Haven't read all of your post it's way to long but picked up on bits. Have you tried making sure everything is prepared the night before? Also have you thought of changing the clock? So it's half and hour forward? So it makes it look later than it is?

Knowledge is power @FluthyFeaffers I hope life gets easier for you all

Oh that poor kid. He's lucky to have you though as you sound receptive to advice. He's so obviously got ADHD!

I believe I do, and was just like this as a kid (although no-one was bothered about chasing me up for things or getting me to school on time, that was my problem!) But I'd forget anything I was asked to do a minute after being asked. My stepmum used to get so annoyed, and she'd feel so disrespected, and would shout at me "if it was important to YOU, you'd remember it!" But I genuinely wouldn't. I still have the problem now.

I managed to miss my DD's dentist appointment for the fourth time last month, her dental health is SO important to me (mine is shit and I don't want that for her), I KNEW we were on our last warning and would be chucked off the NHS list, I reminded myself 8 different ways it was coming up, and STILL somehow forgot it. I cried and cried. You want so so much to be better, and can't stand yourself sometimes for being so hopeless, for letting people down and causing them problems.

Please try to be patient and to help him. He sounds like a gentle, good boy, classic dreamy inattentive. He sounds like he wants to please you. I know it must drive you demented. How about make it a 'before bed' checklist rather than an 'in the morning' checklist, and put everything he needs for the next day in the car so it's there already tomorrow?

He needs external help OP. It's not a lazy behaviour thing,this is not a medical situation where he needs assessments and help put in place properly for him. It's hard on you but help him access that OP he's crying out for it, and don't let anyone fob you off. Re his comments just reassure him that you now have a plan going forward to get help needed and that he's should never be sorry for being him ( broke my heart reading that) everyone brains work a little differently and his doestoo. Explain to him you and him just need to figure out what tools his brain needs to work effectively, his tools will be diff from maybe his peers etc. Lots of love and support as tbh he sound like he's beating himself up over it and in a state of confusion too.

I'm autistic and have ADHD and dyspraxia. I was diagnosed with all three in my early 30s.

I don't know about gifted or caring but the trauma of growing up undiagnosed has made me really funny

(@amusedbush ...also 'hard on self'! 😉)
I don't want to go down the bolloxy 'Superpower' road, but truly, I think people's experiences can make them think with much more compassion sometimes.

I voted YANBU because I would have lost it long before then. I also think it is a good idea to let him do a detention as a a consequence of his own actions.
However, I also think that he has some mild SEN. Primary schools often don’t pick up on these if a child is meeting their targets and generally ticking along. However, secondary schools are often where these things start to become more obvious. He sounds very much like my DD at a similar age, particularly the fact that he is fine in everything but maths. She was diagnosed with dyspraxia and later with very high functioning autism. Dyspraxia can cause problems with organisation and time management in spades. It also goes hand in glove with autism 9/10 people with dyspraxia will also be on the autistic spectrum. In conjunction with this there is very often audio processing disorder, where a person hears what has been said but takes longer than usual to respond while they process what has been said. I have a few suggestions for helping with the immediate problems, though. Firstly you need a sheet of paper or wipeable for each school day. On it are the books and materials he needs to pack for that day. He can tick each item when it is packed. The final item on each day’s list is to put the packed rucksack by the front door. The same for PE equipment and musical instruments. He also needs a 1,2,3 list for his morning routine - 1) get up, wash and brush teeth, 2) Eat breakfast, 3) pick up rucksack and leave for school.q

Sounds exactly like my DS who has ADHD. Mornings/organisation in general are a massive struggle, instructions/listening skills/ easily distracted are also a huge challenge. It effect’s my son in a number of ways but also he has low self esteem and gets frustrated and upset with himself constantly because of it. It is so hard to balance finding ways to support him without just doing everything for him to make it easier! Defo getting everything ready the night before - uniform laid out and bag packed, shoes and coat by the front door, helps with the rush in the morning.

my son hyper focuses on things (to the point he forgets to eat/go to the toilet before having to run there 😂😅) and is very clever at school but very hard on himself x

Everything you have described about your DS sounds just like mine. He is suspected adhd, waiting for assessment. I think you definitely need to do some research on adhd. Contact the senco and ask for him to be assessed. DS scored low on working memory and processing. He’s always been average too according to school although I thought he was above average. He gets extra time now and it turns out he wasn’t completing all the questions. Now he gets extra time he’s above average on exams but still struggles with the pace in class. Hyperfocus is a pretty telltale sign of adhd to me. DS also has great long term memory. He’s taught himself to code at home and can remember hundreds if not thousands of coding scripts but remembering his pe kit is still a struggle 🤣 he’s very good at languages too which is all memory but different kinds of memory to remembering pe kits. Lists and routine have really helped us and having his room as organised as possible. Everything must have a place and no clutter.

It sounds like he’s really struggling and probably feeling very frustrated. He will need a lot of support adjusting to secondary which will be difficult for you being so busy on a morning.

Hyper focus is definitely consistent with ADHD. My eldest was diagnosed at 9 He’s now year 8, horrendous in the mornings, or indeed being organised at all (but then, I’m very similar!) He can remember things vividly from when he was 2 but can’t remember things I’ve told him 2 minutes ago. He’s constantly losing things. Sorry no advice on how to improve your mornings. Lists might help with tasks on that he had to tick off as he does them? I did this with mine in primary school, it worked to some extent. I would recommend getting him assessed though.

Oh that's adhd. My ds is the exact same. I sometimes lose my cool with him too. You're human. Not where he's in tears though. I would apologise to him for shouting at him so much and come up with a system like post it's or use Alexa for prompts and reminders.

A visual chart won't work without a timer along with it. We use Alexa and a wipe clean visual chart on his wall.

Very consistent with ADHD. As is underperforming. In adulthood, the hyperfocus can mean brilliant achievements. But in the background, absolutely nothing at all gets done so the person ends up living in chaos.

You sound like a fantastic mum, as someone diagnosed with ADHD in secondary school I know the difference that understanding makes and how much your son will appreciate you looking into it. Having a diagnosis- even before that, suspecting a diagnosis- made my home life so much easier and happier because everyone could adjust their expectations. Help me when I needed it, give me space to excel where I naturally could, everything started to even out. I hope things get better for both of you from here on out; it sounds like you've made a fantastic first step

Hyper focus is very common with ADHD.

Regardless of whether he has SEN, he clearly needs support with organisation. Loads of teenagers do. In fact, the majority are a bit rubbish at this kind of thing as they are still developing. Basically, make life a bit easier for him. Print off a copy of his timetable and put it in his pencil case (a lot of parents do this for their children). Help him pack his bag and PE kit the night before and put it by the front door. Do the organising with him, if he is struggling.

OP, not much I can add that’s helpful except to say that you sound like an awesome mum. Your DS is very lucky.

Also, NRTFT but would you get him up earlier?

I haven’t read all the posts (because I have ADHD myself 😎) but if nobody has mentioned it already get Russel Barkley’s book - 12 Principles on Raising a Child with ADHD. He’s also got a lot on YouTube. His go to saying is “don’t change the child to fit the environment, change the environment to fit the child”.

My (now early 20s) son was only diagnosed two years ago (and myself earlier this year).
Looking back, neither of us really struggled until y5/6 and got significantly worse in secondary school.

Solidarity fist bump mama. You got this.

This is the most amazing analogy I've ever read. Just absolutely nailed it. I hope you don't mind, I will use this myself. Just too many fucking balloons!!

My 14yo has autism and had difficulties like this initially.

Yelling doesn't help. You can't yell people into having a different personality.

We have two boards like this - one for morning and one for evening, with all the different things listed. After each use I flip all the greens back to red ready for next time.

Once DC is ready for school, if there is time before the bus leaves, they are allowed TV/screen time etc. They voluntarily choose to set their alarm clock for 20 minutes earlier than is necessary in order to guarantee being able to get all the things done and then have a bit of relaxation time before the bus.

Likewise in the evening there's no TV after supper until the list for the evening is done (which includes things like getting PE bag ready and tying it to the school rucksack, if there is PE next day)

Your DS is onboard with not wanting detentions, but can't magic up the executive function to be able to manage all these multi-step processes without support and guidance for how to develop these skills. When someone has executive function difficulties it can help to break down bigger tasks into smaller ones. "Have you got everything you need in your bag" is too big and woolly. It needs to be broken down into one question at a time

• do you know what lessons you have today?; if not, find out.
• do you need to have any special books, equipment or clothes for any of these?
• have lists of what those things are, and do one step at a time to achieve each thing - drifting off-track and getting distracted happens when the task in-hand is too complex to just be done in a single step.

Goodness what a load of stress… just get his bag for him. If he’s having trouble doing stuff and you need to be out on time just get it for him. Then reinforce what needs to be done at weekends for example, then hopefully that will branch out into weekdays.

@dearanon Alexa + Wipe clean is a genius idea!

*ChalkMyDrive

Tick list so he physically ticks off what he needs to do. He can read the list and see where he has ticks missing. Mine had these and both are NT children. It had everything on it for a morning routine in the order things were done so that it became routine*

You do realise that this would only work for NT children

Ticking a box when you have completed a task would be as much effort and as huge a job as actually doing the task.
So much to do, finding a pen to use, keeping hold of the pen whilst you locate the chart. Finding which task you did and actually ticking it

What you have to think about is that with a NT brain you get a dopamine hit when you have completed a boring task. It’s like a small reward. Ticking something off a list as completed gives you another dopamine hit
An ADHD brain doesn’t give you any reward, any dopamine. So why would you complete the first task so you have to do the even more boring task of ticking something off a list.

Imagine the most boring and pointless thing you can think of doing and then people telling you that is what you have to do over and over every time you complete an equally monotonous and pointless task which takes all your strength to complete and you don’t get any reward out of completing it because as soon as you do you have to start again

Would you bother doing any of it when you have so much more things going on in your brain.

This sounds like my daughter. However, she got a phone for her 10th birthday and has been using it to set alarms for what she needs to do to get out of the house on time for school. She’s in year 6 and so far, touch wood, it’s going well.

I do think there is a smidge of ADHD there for her, same with her dad, and because I work from 7am (from home) he does the lions share of the morning school stuff - the noise from the two of them arguing every morning last year when he was trying to get her and her siblings out of the house was deafening.

Thankfully the alarm system seems to be working for both of them now, leaving him to focus on getting the younger ones ready.

Really hoping it lasts.

@FlyingUnicornWings it transformed our mornings from stressed, running late, losing things to lovely and calm.

We still have the occasional rushed morning but maybe once every few weeks instead of everyday.

Ds is less stressed, dd is less stressed because I'm less stressed.

I also have adhd as does dd so it's a houseful of additional needs all forgetting and bouncing off one another