To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

Lucky lucky boy to have a mum like you, this thread has made me think differently about how I’m approaching my own frustrating mornings with my 11 year old (who does have diagnosed ASD so I should know better).

Me and two of my children are like this and have ADHD

And it’s a perfect example of how hard life can be for the person and parents so thank you for putting it on paper, most parents are like “ all kids are like that”

Year 7. Give him time. Even without other difficulties, its such a big change. Like starting a huge new job you don't think you can really do. Every day is different at first, new people, new subjects. It's exhausting and stressful for a child, especially if they have difficulties coping anyway. he's desperately trying to remember everything.
You are doing well finding new ways to support and understand him. Things will improve. Routine is everything.
Coming home routines, going to bed routines, getting up routines. Lists on the wall in his bag. Spare pencilcase, spare PE kits, with a checklist in side. Check lists on the front door.
You've already started this practice... but you have to walk him through it for a while. Especially the bag packing. Don't ask him six times to do something. stand next to him while he does it ( for a while) If forgetting a timetable is a problem, print out many copies. One for his bag which never comes out and you check its there (evening bag packing routine). if he has a locker at school, a copy sellotaped in. or journal. Memory boards to write on in the kitchen, his bedroom etc. Labelled place for shoes One place. ( that was always our bug bear, shoes dumped and unfindable in the mornings!)
When he comes home. Snack.. and unpack bag. We had a homework clip board. As we unpacked we went through timetable and checked what was required from every class - 10 mins. Whats the homework. Whens it due? But in a non stress, non cross way. This is the biggest thing to do. Its what will trip him up everytime. But having him go through each thing and remember it and writing it down will mean that you both know what he needs to do. I promise you this will help him so much. If he doesn't know where to start with homework, get him to talk it through. CGP books for his year - they are colourful ways to fill the gaps he may have missed in class.
A basket by the front door with everything he needs. Checklist in it and you check it with him before bed.
It is stressful for you. try not to panic. Things will improve. What can you do about the inflexibility at work? I think you need to do the same as you want him to do, so that its one less thing for you to worry about in the morning. Everything ready the night before, yourself up and ready before you start with them. Get one child ready and then him. Allow yourself 10 mins before leaving and walk him through the leaving the house routine.
Technology is your friend. Use the ipad/phone to set reminders with him... (cheap watch with reminders etc.
Talk to your local Dyslexia Awareness centre for advice ( even if undiagnosed, dyslexics have short term memory issues and they will have plenty of tips to use tech to help him) E.g.. photographing the white board instead of struggling to take notes. Speak to sen/head of year at school for support - secondary schools often have more resources than primary.
This may all seem like a huge uphill task. But what you are doing is teaching him routines and ways of doing things that he needs extra help with.Yes you want him to be independent, but this will give him a grounding anyway. He will get more independent. Especially when you both start to see this system works. He will get older and more mature, used to secondary school and will surprise you.
Have faith in yourself and him. You will get there and so will he.
Every once in a while, take him out to somewhere nice and chat about his favourite game, favourite TV - anything except school and organisation. Best of luck!

i know it's not me you've asked, but my DS is 17, he didn't start ADHD meds until he was 15, and he said it quietened the constant feel of chatter/static noise in his head enough for him to find it easier to focus on his lessons at School.

I tried them briefly, but found they didn't agree with me and i like the noise in my head, i prefer to self medicate with Coffee. My brother takes them and they make the WORLD of difference to him for same reason as DS and he finds them essential to his working day.

I hope that helps a little .

Absolutely agree. It's about accepting neurodiversity and not thinking of SEN as a last resort.

OP, you are a wonderful mom. You've been dealing with a serious issue without knowing what was happening with your son but knowing in your gut something wasn't right.

I agree with everyone in the thread - your son is exhibiting classic AHDH symptoms.

My advice is the practical sort - get a private psychologist appointment to get your son diagnosed, so he can get the treatment he needs. The sooner he gets his meds, the earliest you'll see a difference in him.

I'd get him to do as much as possible the night before so the morning is literally breakfast, wash, dress (in clothes laid out) teeth, and leave.
I'd also get up earlier so that I could get myself ready first so I could stand over him if necessary. If you establish and enforce the tightest most minimal routine you can, (the same every day, as flexibility, variety and options are not friends of the disorganised procrastinator) then in time hopefully it will become a habit and he'll do it on autopilot without you needing to stand over him.

This is my boy to a T.

He has ADHD.

Being able to hyper focus on the interesting things is quite typical of ADHD as is poor short term memory. I would try and get him assessed - perhaps there are other conditions that can also impair short term memory - but in the meantime accept that you will need to do stuff for him and more closely supervise more than for most 11 year olds. He doesn’t seem to be not doing these things through laziness or not caring, he is simply unable to focus on them long enough to do them. Also do the checklist one item at a time as it could be overwhelming to have seven items. Go through the list at the door when you leave. Stick in 10 mins contingency as you know you are needing this every day. It’s tough and frustrating when it seems so easy to you but it’s just not within his capability at the moment. I read Gabor Mate’s Scattered Minds. It opened my eyes about ADHD and what some of the manifestations really are.

Sounds like ADHD, often the symptoms are viewed as personal failings rather that a condition that needs to be managed. Hyperfocus is definitely a sign of it, speak to school/ doctors ASAP

It does thank you @PhantomUnicorn , my DS is looking forward to starting tomorrow. His medication has just arrived, I only wish that we had done this years ago. We have let him down badly.

Can you spend a few (hopefully) mornings with him to show him the routine, following the sequence of actions and helping him every minute to do all the things he needs to do? If the routine is in his muscle memory, he might find it easier to follow it.

As an adult with ADHD, this is me. I do genuinely forget and get distracted easily. My other half makes a joke about it and I get stuff done. Eventually 😂

This is not so say you son has ADHD but the fact he's an otherwise good kid who struggles massively with organisation and genuinely wants to be better, but can't may suggest it's worth looking in to.

We all lose it at least once. We reach the very limit of what we are able to tolerate. It's done, you can apologise for it, explain why and move on. There wil be no lasting damage.

If I were you I would focus on doing everything the night before. Have a set of drawers near the front door. You know the plastic towers? Label each, bag, shoes, homework etc and make sure that is all done so it's ready to grab and go.

Something to note is those with ADHD don't do things automatically, like a habit. So for instance they wake up, go for a wee, get dressed, have breakfast, brush their teeth etc with ADHD those things are not something that become a natural habit. We actually have to really think about doing them and will often forget if we get distracted (walk up stairs, oh I left a sock on the floor, let me pick that up - forgets they were going to brush their teeth).
Maybe set alarms on his phone if he has one and get him into the habit of the alarm goes off and he has to push all distractions out of his head and go straight to that.

It's all about finding out what works. I would speak to both the school and work and let them know exactly what's happening. Apologise but explain it won't be forever and offer work for instance to make up the time.

Good luck 🤞

Try not to dwell on the past, you have things in place now, and he is getting the help he needs, and YOU got him there, i don't imagine it's been an easy journey for any of you. I'm still fighting that fight for my 14yo DD and finding it much harder than i ever did with my DS.

I find Focusing on the positives of what we ARE doing, and what the future holds now we're on the right path is better than dwelling on what we couldn't or didn't do in the past.

Your poor son. Your post is screaming ADHD and if his sister has SEN then he is much more likely to have SEN too. I’m not one to make an armchair diagnosis but my daughter has ADHD and I recognise so much of what you wrote in her presentation.

*Gettingbysomehow

Why is everything immediately SEN these days? I'd literally only think of this as a last resort.

My son was exactly the same at this age drove me nuts. He is a definitely non SEN adult now and manages to get to work on time everyday and manage his life without any help. What he had back then was adolescent brain nothing more or less*

But how much effort does your ds have to put in into getting to work on time.

Also remind me what age does adolescence start. Pretty sure it doesn’t start at primary school.

The thing that absolutely immediately jumped out to me was ADHD. Sounds very similar to my youngest. I do believe he genuinely can't help it.

@LittleMousewithcloggson this sounds a very sensible and pragmatic approach

Just to say that from my point of view (knowing others with ADHD and dyspraxia, as well as having it), there are often some amazing traits that come with it too. Some of the most gifted, original, determined, caring and didactic people I will never forget have had and struggled with this cocktail of ND. Not just one; several.

I have two very similar to this @FluthyFeaffers - they were speech delayed as toddlers and spent time in an SEN unit because of it.

The only thing that really worked, is repetition and not too much at any one point.

You're doing everything right, but clearly it's not working. My advice (and I do think that having some assessments like others suggest is worth looking into as well):

Unfortunately you're going to need to be more 'present' at least for a while. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're not, but you need to

1. Issue an instruction. Just one. "get your timetable"
2. ask him to repeat it back to you. Literally say "what did I just ask you to do?"
3. When he does, get him to execute the instruction.
4. repeat.

This will help. I still have to prompt one of the two of them, but now just started Y10 they're MUCH better. I think mine has ADHD tbh. They are both dyslexic.

Another helpful thing - have half an hour before bed where everything for school is sorted. So PE kit - in bag and put by front door. Any homework - ditto. I still do this for myself tbh when I have something important to remember!

Good luck. I really feel for you.

There's a book called 'smart but scattered teens' to help with EF difficulties.

Thank you @PhantomUnicorn x

Sounds like ADHD and/or Dyspraxia.

He sounds exactly like DS2.
Very bright , when finally tested by Ed Psych in top 2% IQ for his age
Reading age always at least 3 or 4 years above chronological age.
Not good at Maths.
Disorganised ++++
He was diagnosed at 17 with dyslexia, terrible short term memory and slow processing speed.
Please help him and you and get an assessment, don't let anyone tell you his ability as a reader means he isn't dyslexic. I know anything about ADHD so not able to comment.
My DS is 27, doesn't drive as he doesn't trust his abilty to react quickly enough, and I still get panic calls about train timetables!