To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

this this this
ADHDer here - we have two times - now and not now - make him do it there and then, even if you stand on top of him

dont' ask him to do X, y and Z

Ask him to do X
then ask to do y
don't ask for z until the others are done.

ask him to prioritise - what is more important - no detention or the things that distract him

use a series of alarms on his or your phone

briing brring - time for breakfast NOW
brring brring - clothes on
brring brring - school books and planner

etc etc

As others have said, ADHD has three subtypes and he may have the inattentive one.

I was diagnosed at 31 with "severe" (categorised by the NHS) combined ADHD, so both inattentive and hyperactive. Nobody - including me - suspected ADHD because I'm absolutely not hyperactive... outwardly. It turns out my hyperactivity presents as a whirlwind of thoughts, fidgeting, and constantly talking. As a child, my mum said I talked from the moment I opened my eyes in the morning until I went to sleep that night. Even as an adult, I once had a boss take me aside and physically shout in my face to "stop talking and just do your fucking work!"

I can hyper focus on things that interest me but my executive dysfunction cripples me when it comes to anything boring-but-necessary. I have gotten into trouble for it my whole life, and it has caused me to lose jobs. I can't tell you how much I have despised myself in those moments of procrastination but I physically can't force myself to do a task until I'm absolutely flat against the deadline. I also forget about everything within seconds; if something is out of my eyeline, it might as well be on the moon. I live my life by a series of reminders on my phone but even that's no guarantee!

I try desperately to be organised and plan ahead but it always goes to shit and no matter how much time I give myself to get ready, I manage to fill every minute of time with faffing. I have no sense of time and I can't estimate how long a task will take me, so I over-commit myself and then end up in a meltdown because it is taking far longer than I expected. Plus, I usually have to double back because I've misread something and did half of it wrong, so I need to re-do it 😫

I started stimulant medication in 2021 and I actually cried the first day I took them because my head was finally quiet.

My child has adhd autism and dyspraxia I'm literally on him all morning his bag is packed the night before he eats a pastry for breakfast in his room as does his sen brother and I walk between the rooms I hand out breakfast get myself ready then I tell him to go to the toilet quick before his brother (he splashes and I need to mop daily so ds1 likes to go first) then I get his brother through the toilet hand out clothing (he still hasn't eaten his breakfast but that's up to him) AS SOON as his clothes are on (several time prompts) I do his hair put his phone in his blazer pocket and send him out the door to get the bus I told him if he misses the bus he walks if he doesn't do homework he takes the punishment he is supposed to tell me when he has PE and help me pack the bag if he fails to he gets a detention (I do prompt him to check his timetable often I have a copy on his door for reference) and 90% of the time he doesn't eat breakfast but it's either eat it and be late and walk or not eat it and get the bus he goes for the bus

He is year ten

Why is everything immediately SEN these days? I'd literally only think of this as a last resort.

My son was exactly the same at this age drove me nuts. He is a definitely non SEN adult now and manages to get to work on time everyday and manage his life without any help. What he had back then was adolescent brain nothing more or less.

Oh, OP — you and your DS sound amazing. I can’t help feeling his primary school failed him somewhat, not picking up on the adhd: you’re not an expert, but teachers should be able to spot the signs. Hope that you can both get the support you need now though. Sending love and kudos to you both.

I just wanted to come on and say that you are an amazing mum! It’s obvious you really care and just want the best for your son!
It’s so easy for people to say “just help him” or “get up earlier” but they are not living in your house experiencing the high levels of stress. But it is great to see so many supportive comments. And your the first person I’ve seen on these threads to actually take on board the advice of possible neurodiversities. I would wholeheartedly agree that you should speak with a gp and the school asap. Get the ball rolling as these things take time.

I would also suggest, if you haven’t already, look into PDA as well as the ADHD. It’s such a vast spectrum that they can often mould into each other, so please don’t feel any guilt about not connecting some of the signs.
I hope you can find some support to make the mornings more manageable and calm.

Try different reminders other than verbal.
(I would have let him get a detention by the way - it would help him comprehend what it means.)
Have pictorial signs up for him to see.
Have written instructions.
Have a table/graph where he needs to read the instruction and mark it off with pen.
Ask him to write out the five things he does in the morning, in order and leave that near his bed (every night until he remembers)
It is so unfair to his siblings that he doesn't take his motivation seriously.

And this I would absolutely do - Each moring son forgets to dress himself insist that he is dressed ready for school before bed and sleeps in his clothes. (Otherwise insist that he jumps in the car at the correct time regardless of what he is wearing (PJs, so what)
My daughter only needed to be on the school bus in her pyjamas once for her to never be late getting dressed again.
Ramifications need to be concrete rather than abstract for some kids to grasp the concept.

You sound like a fab mum. I’ve recently been diagnosed and it would have been such a game changer to have had my diagnosis as a child instead of well into my thirties and having had struggled my entire life. Nobody picked up on it but looking back through all my school reports it’s so obvious!

Get up earlier and get everything ready for him the night before. I know we shouldnt "have to" but it makes life easier. Check what days hes got PE, pack his stuff the night before and leave it out ready to grab his bag on the way out. Help him out a little. Y7 is a big transition and boys arent as organised as girls (usually)

This is exactly ADHD - your child sounds exactly like my Y7, except that we only have this problem for the first part of the morning whilst his ADHD meds kick in. He genuinely can’t help it and I know it’s really frustrating but it’s not his fault.

Absolutely sounds like adhd. Sounds to me like you need to get him up very early and take him through each and every step until it becomes habit for him, if you’ve got up early and sorted him out first then you’re free to sort your other children out after without any disruption.

Yes, when you said hyperfocus, that was it...
Well done for asking better questions and tuning in to your son.
When the stakes get higher (more pressure in senior school transition, and again for post 16/18, and again for the workplace), the wheels may come off. Or it may be years before you notice the wheels come off - it was workplace that broke things, for me, but boy, is it destructive.

Get hold, as soon as possible, of some ADHD organisational resources, developed by people who have actually had to use them. Don't wait. ADDitude is good for adults (first-hand experience), not sure about child-appropriate or parenting recommendations. Although medication and understanding is very helpful, it's not a quick fix and it does not take the layers of difficulty away. My other advice would be: have a 'screw-up' fund.

In adult (me) terms, this is: a pot of money that is saved to fund (primarily) locking myself out repeatedly (then finding the keys 4 days later); missing booked trains; gathering assistance when things lead to panic. It is a measure like having one house key always attached to my purse with a chain (yes, can still lose it if the purse goes).
In schoolkid terms it might be: several copies of things, some of which you keep (ties, timetables, protractors, green pens or whatever...); timetable always physically - forcibly - attached to the inside of the bag, and buy a bag that allows this to be done very easily. That kind of thing.

Totally agree

I think maybe your expectations are too high - At that age I still I packed my ds' bag with everything for school the night before and re checked before we left the house ! - He is 16 now and can finally do it all himself but at 12 he was still unable to self organise . It sounds like it would be less work to do it than to keep nagging him to do it ! You might be too narrowly focussed on the goal of foisting maturity onto him

Your description is making me cry as it’s exactly the feeling I had when I discovered ADHD in all its complexities and recognised my DS (now formally diagnosed). Life’s still tricky with forgetting and listening and losing and processing, but so much easier now we both know what we’re dealing with.

Before, it was like trying to make an omelette with milk instead of eggs, and then being frustrated that it wouldn’t fold up neatly on the plate at the end of it. It gets better the more you understand, though!

(And I’m sure PPs have said already, keep an eye out for neurodivergence in your daughter too, with your descriptions of sock seams and hairbands. It runs in families and can look very different in girls. Well done, OP!)

Oh OP I’d so so so be feeling the same as you, it sounds like you have been so so patient. Us parents have so much to do let alone remind 100000 times. I’d maybe see if there’s something else going on - as it does seem unusual to need this many prompts?

It's very obvious that he does have sen. Get help and forgive yourself.

I never knew hyper focusing was part of ADHD, or that you could have ADHD without the H

The Hyper part doesn’t necessarily mean physically hyper active, his brain is probably off the charts hyper active.

You are describing me as a child except there was no Mumsnet or TikTok or Facebook groups or anyone to give my mother advice apart from that I needed a good hiding to get me to do anything as I was so slow and lazy (despite me putting in more effort than anyone else I knew)

Your ds is probably exhausted trying to do what NT’s call simple jobs

Its like consciously having to remember to take each breath, whilst having to tell your heart to keep beating whilst you clean the house and work your job and watch the tv and learn mandarin and be at a concert all at the same time. Then someone tells you to put a timetable in your bag or some other thing which you think you will get round to when you have time and then starts getting angrier because you haven’t done it because at the time you were remembering to breathe etc etc So they start shouting at you and you tune out the shouting as that is too much to take on atm and in doing so you miss what you were supposed to be doing.

Living with undiagnosed ADHD is truly exhausting.

This screams issues. Dyspraxia (executive functioning in particular). ADHD. Get the child some help fgs.

EDIT: apologies, I should have looked for your update.

I would argue, like many others, that your son does indeed have some type of SEN.

Whilst most children his age probably could reliably be left to sort themselves out in the morning, this isn’t the reality for your son. He has tried, and he seems to be equally as distressed by this as you are. The way I view it is, you wouldn’t leave a physically disabled child to get on with tasks that they just couldn’t do independently, therefore, your son is also going to need assistance. If that looks like you putting his timetable in his bag, or his PE bag in the car, or standing with him whilst he gets into his uniform and brushes his teeth, then so be it. Absolutely work on ways to help him gain independence in these areas, but until you’re at that point, he needs help and assistance, not discipline, detentions, and shouting.

Look into ADHD. Auditory processing is a signifier (listening problems), hyper focus, to a neurotypical outsider a very hard to understand inability to do tasks in order even when it is routine.

While you look into, can you look at what can be organised the night before? Eg pe bag, school bag with timetable in car, uniform set out downstairs, very clear list on wall of what needs to be done.

Maybe also have a conversation about detention. It's not the worst thing in the world, he might need some help reducing the panic/shame around that. As he is almost certainly going to have a detention at some point and it would be good if he didn't get so horribly stressed about it.

My DS is 16 and has just been diagnosed with ADHD , I wish we had done this years ago.

May I ask does your DS take medication @elastamum? My DS is about to start and any advice would be very much appreciated.

@Gettingbysomehow
Ahhhh the good old days when people just struggled and then suffered lifelong consequences of not understanding themselves and believing they were defective. When people were labeled as naughty and disruptive and never had the chance to reach their potential. Those halcyon days where neurodivergent people had exponentially higher rates of anxiety, depression, substance abuse, PTSD and often became suicidal. (These discrepancies persist today btw, especially amongst late-diagnosed folk).

Guess what- not every story online is about your life, your experiences and how things don’t apply to you. You’re not required to agree… or really to comment when your level of ignorance on the topic is clear for all to see.

Tick list so he physically ticks off what he needs to do. He can read the list and see where he has ticks missing. Mine had these and both are NT children. It had everything on it for a morning routine in the order things were done so that it became routine.

Timetable, make several copies, mine had a small version that I made also laminated that fitted into their pencil case. They had one in their bedrooms and one on the back of the front door.

All bags etc were packed the night before with books, their PE kit was in another bag and when needed they had a carabiner clip to attach it firstly to their school bag whilst at home so they brought it downstairs, but also under the desk at school so they never left it in a classroom.

Sorry just saw your update, big thumbs up to you.