To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

Your son has ADHD. Seriously, get him assessed. In the meantime, despite the fact that he is very capable and clever in lots of ways (most ADHDers really are!) he really needs you to scaffold him to stay on task. That means packing bag the night before and putting it in the car/ by the door. That means timers, a visual calendar, and basically getting up earlier. That means body doubling with him to get tasks like homework, bag packing, tooth brushing etc done. He has essentially what sounds like a non-existent working memory. Issues with executive function and also sounds like he has time blindness. These are all huge ADHD symptoms. You need to be his working memory. It’s exhausting but you will all be driven bonkers otherwise.

And the AD (attention deficit) part of ADHD is a real misnomer for a lot of people- they can ABSOLUTELY
hyper focus on things they are interested in. But staying focused on tasks that don’t interest them- that’s where the problem is.

I'm glad you're looking into adhd for him because that's what your post said to me too.

The H part can be absent or it can just be unseen. His brain can be going through tens (or more) of things every minute but you don't see that, you just see his inability to follow the seemingly simple instructions, particularly when they're things you do daily.

My dd is 8, I'm currently waiting on a referral for assessment for her as I've suspected adhd since before she was 2. It is very frustrating telling them the same things over and over and feeling like all of the constant pestering is adding more jobs to your already overwhelming to do list. I'm particularly trying to get her assessed / diagnosed before secondary as I know it will cause her more issues then.

Visual aids could be helpful, a to do list, reminders set on a phone or tablet or alexa if he has any of these for example.

You sound like a wonderful mum and I can totally empathise with the wanting to lie in a dark room for days feeling. You must be exhausted with it all. Your last update made me tear up, your kids are lucky to have you. It's a great sign that your son has such good insight into his own difficulties, it sounds like you will be able to adapt together.

This is SO lovely, OP. Reading your first post I immediately thought ADHD (yr6 awaiting assessment so I can relate). I’m so glad you’ve had some excellent advice and already taken the time to read up on it.
Speak to the school SEN and your GP to get the ball rolling for referral and assessment. Good luck!

DS1 was very much like this. I suspected minor ADHD as it didn't impact too much on his day to day life, however we have always had to help him with his organisation.

He also has hyper focus on things that interest him, but difficulty concentrating if things don't.

He is 18 in November and much better than he was, but we do still need to remind him about things which honestly I am very happy to do as it makes everyone's life far more pleasant

Whet sort of questions did you ask him and how?
My dd is so similar to this, it's beyond annoying but I can't understand it because I am so methodical and anal about time.

I literally could have written this word for word about my son - we're in the exact same situation. he was very premature, but no health issues aside for rubbish lungs and no balance/had to have physio to learn to walk. I'm in the same position OP - How can this not be picked up at school though? (we've asked but primary school have always said nothing wrong).

(sorry to jump on your post)

I sat down with him this morning and cuddled him and talked and I asked him all the right questions based on everything I've spent 12 hours reading and learning, and he answered my questions in a way he's never explained to me before, I think because I wasn't asking him in the right way before I'd read up about all this stuff, and he explained so much to me about his brain, his memory, his organisation, how it all works and how much it's impacting him. And I really listened to him.

Your descriptions of ADHD are making me go from looking through a glass window at my DS who is on the other side and I'm trying to smile at him and show him I'm here for him but the glass is misty and although I can see him I can't see him really clearly and I can't tell what he's doing or thinking, but with reading all your posts and replies and explanations and learning everything I've read online since yesterday evening , this morning I feel like I'm wiping the misty glass with a cloth someone's given me to use and now I can suddenly see him so much more clearly. And he's smiling back at me, because now he is starting to feel seen and understood.

😢💞

I also had never heard of inattentive ADHD. We knew DS had executive function difficulties and sensory processing difficulties. NO ONE mentioned that these can be symptoms or co-existing conditions of inattentive ADHD. He is NOT hyperactive. He can be hyper focused. I have a brother with Hyperactive ADHD and I did not recognise him in DS. The guilt I feel that I did not know this was a thing, even though we had him assessed, he went to OTs, he had educational psychologists (to be fair - it was the EP, in year 6, who suggested inattentive ADHD was a thing for him and explained it to us).

We are on week 4 of medication. I spoke with the specialist yesterday. I said something like, "I just can't get my head around the meds making such a difference. I feel like maybe DS is just trying harder?" and he said, "would you say that you are just trying harder to see when you put your glasses on?"

If you can afford it, go private as if you want help on the NHS you could be looking at another year or more.

Also contact the SENCO at the school to discuss what support they can offer and to check on school. You say he's doing okay at school, but I'd be interested in checking whether he's having to work even harder to function at school and maybe the school can help, even without a diagnosis (DS had interventions in place long before we got a diagnosis).

The child likely has working memory and executive function challenges, possibly indicating special educational needs (SEN). Consult with professionals for assessment and support.

ADHD. My son has it and I am waiting to b assessed. It isn't his fault. ADHD brains dont function th same. U can research it online and you can ask to speak to th school senco about getting him support. X

I came on to say, it absolutely sounds consistent with ADHD, but you're already getting all the info.

Just to say I empathise completely with your mornings, and you sound like a lovely mum.

Is he on a phone? Sounds like he needs zero distractions and a clear view of what he needs to do. I’d wake him up at 6am and do a chart and he cannot move into the next thing until he has ticked that one he is doing off.

My DS is exactly like this, with fantastic long term memory and ability to focus on things he's interested in but no short term memory and an inability to organise and get ready. He's 12. He has a diagnosis of ASD.

Your son most definitely has adhd/add. He is having problems with executive dysfunction.
He may well have 'listening problems'. Aka, hearing the instructions and knowing what to do, but information not reaching the brain quick enough in the right order.
My eldest was exactly the same. Very frustrating and was never picked up at school as he was never hyperactive and his grades were good. Except he never got enough work done, which was a common theme on his reports.

Give him clear and short instructions.
Have everything ready for him the night before, so all he needs to do in the morning are things he most definitely has to do himself, eg, dress, eat, brush teeth.
Leave more time for things to be done.

Also, I would speak to the school SENCO about your concerns. There's probably issues that haven't been picked up yet because all the puzzle pieces, so to speak, aren't in place.

Once you raise concerns, there may well be a light bulb moment.

He can have things put in place now, before things get worse.

My eldest didn't have things put in place, even after me asking for the whole of secondary, until A levels. Then it was too late, he failed them all.

Another agreeing with ADHD.Hyperfocus is a trait.

You need to help him more. Put his timetable in his bag, put the PE kit in the car. If he literally cannot remember to do it or gets distracted on the way to doing it, he needs support. There’s nothing wrong with helping your kid in this way.

Unfortunately, I’m quite similar to your son and no amount of giving me space to learn to do those things would help. I forget, it’s like it was never in my head. I can’t do something that I don’t have in my brain.

I also find constant reminders extremely stressful. My husband is always listing the things I need to remember to do and all but stick my fingers in my ears as I cannot handle it. It’s too overwhelming.

I agree he sounds like he has ADHD or Dyslexia.

does he have a phone or more importantly something with a digital Clock/watch With an alarm.
set an alarm. Time to get up & get dressed.
allow 10 minutes.
next alarm, time for breakfast, allow 10 minutes.
next alarm, time to make lunch & pack your bag, allow 15 minutes,
next alarm, time to brush your teeth & hair, allow 10 minutes,
next alarm, time to get in the car.

so he needs 45 minutes to an hour to get ready for school.

DONT Prod him, back off let him do it himself, the only thing you need todo is tell him, son we are leaving in10 minutes, be in the car in 5 minutes.
if he isn’t ready, bundle him & his stuff into the car & go, if he has to get in the car with un brushed hair & no shoes on, so be it, he can finish getting dressed in the car.

my daughter was so badly disorganised most days until one day, it was time to go & she was still in her pyjamas So, I tossed her bag, her shoes, socks, school uniform & lunch box into the car & told her I was fed up with her mucking about, she could go to school in her pyjamas, I’ve never seen a child get dressed so fast, by the time we were at the school all she needed was her hair braided.

she Never screwed around getting ready for school again. The thought of having to face her class in her pyjamas was enough to motivate her to get moving in the morning.

It sounds to me like he has Dyscalculia. My daughter was the same (although not quite that bad!)
She could never remember more than one thing at a time and she would get distracted. A list won’t help because he has to remember to look at the list!
When I was helping her with spellings in Primary school I had to say each letter separately as she would get over loaded if I said them in groups.
I realised there was something wrong in Y5, but because she was doing well in school (except maths) I didn’t do anything about it.
When she got to secondary school, it became very apparent that she was struggling with maths (even though she’s in set 2!) and with organising essays etc.
I asked school to screen her for dyslexia (which I knew she didn’t have, but I knew something wasn’t right) and it came back that she had processing issues. We have since had her assessed specifically for Dyscalculia which she has.
She is a bright kid. She’s in Y11 now and we’ve just gone through the process of getting her assessed for extra time in her GCSEs (late because school cocked it up, but that’s a whole other story). She got 7s and 8s in her mock exams, but a 4 in maths (which she just scraped).
Please have him assessed. All the signs with lack of organisation, short term memory issues and not good with maths all point towards it.

Whether he has ADHD or not you need to accept that the poor kid just doesn't have the skills you expect yet. How about start by getting everything virtually ready the night before. Then start by supervising heavily but prompt rather than doing it for him. When he gets up ask him to tell you what he thinks he needs to do to be ready for school. Then supervise him heavily and prompt him if he goes off task. Ask 'what are you going to do next' or 'what did you come up here to do?' etc. As he's leaving ask him what things he needs to have for school.If he seems to struggle even with this prompting then as pp have suggested make him checklists.

I'm not one for jumping into diagnosing kids but I think it's worth chatting to school as well and see if they're concerned.

Whatever your perception if the situation is the lad is articulating clearly to you that he feels he's trying his best so you need to support him and boost his confidence as much as possible. Lots of rewarding the small steps and helping him acheive the desired level of independence in small steps is what's needed IMO and this can be done regardless of any diagnosis. X

You have just described my daughter, primary school was a nightmare we were always late and forgetting things like your ds, she was diagnosed dyslexic when she was 7 but not diagnosed autistic until almost 13, I would agree with other posters that he will more than likely have SEN, adhd and autism are linked in a lot of ways and also more likely in people with dyslexia. I tried everything you did and they never worked, my dd still won’t get dressed until we are almost leaving the house as she has major sensory issues with clothing, it too years for our family to understand and support this, my work are very supportive of my situation so I would speak to your boss and maybe ask for som. Flexibility maybe if you r late make up the time later but without being disciplined, you have a right to support and not be discriminated against because you have a child with SEN that impacts your morning routine and therefore your timing for work, obviously this depends on ur job, good luck and take care it’s not easy being a parent of SEN children x

I have AuDHD, my son does, and my daughter is also highly likely ADHD if not also both...

The only way we function in the morning is routine, and my constant prompting. I have alarms and reminders set that chirp at us all throughout the morning.

I get DD up, she goes to make breakfast for them both, and will sit and eat her breakfast while i get DS up. I have to supervise DS getting dressed, this means me literally sitting on his bed and handing him his clothes in order. He will then go down for breakfast, i follow down and make their lunches, and send DD back up to get washed/teeth brushed & dressed. DS finishes breakfast (With me hovering/prompting) and then i send him up to the bathroom, i follow up and get me dressed while chivvying DD in the bedroom next to mine every 5 mins, and calling 5 minute intervals at DS in the bathroom.

I finish dressing. DD finishes dressing (eventually) and i send her back down to pack her bag. I stand at the top of the stairs where i can continue to monitor DS, while calling down to DD to prompt her with brushing her hair. I have my phone on me with her timetable on, so i call out to her to make sure she has everything she needs.

I chase DS out of the bathroom having reminded him to brush his teeth, then make him go sit at the table and take his ADHD meds, and use his face wipes while i pack his bag for him.

I get DS on his bus, and then i drive DD to school, then i come home and have my breakfast. When i worked, i'd take something with me to eat at work before i started.

This is the routine we have had for their whole school life. We are sometimes late, but DD's school know that she has a disabled sibling and she doesn't get detention if its because of him delaying us, if its because SHE has delayed us (which does happen) she has to suck it up.

The routine works, but we are all Neurodiverse and all capable of daydreaming or getting distracted, hence the constant alarms/bells on my phone, their tablets and the google home hub.

My main rule is if i tell/ask them to do something, they do it there and then, or it will not get done. I also ask them to repeat instructions back to me because of Auditory processing problems and i need to make sure they have heard, and understood the instruction.

@Songbird74 ADHD absolutely is genetic. My husband only realized he had ADHD (which has massively impacting him his whole life) when my son was diagnosed.

@FluthyFeaffers - You rock! Seriously. My DS also got diagnosed out of the blue (long story but we had privately gone for an edpsych assessment because of his behaviour over Covid and I wanted to rule out any SEN before I went super tough on parently as in my view I had a lazy child). He has combined type but also tends towards inattentive (what was ADD) which is not the norm for a boy. He masks very well at school and I still have teachers who don't really believe it. You're starting down a very long road, but regardless of where you get to with diagnosis and how long that takes, what's key is trying ADHD strategies with him. For what it's worth, DS deals with mornings by giving himself 1hr30 minutes to get our the house when all he actually has to do is get dressed, eat and brush his teeth!

I should say it doesn't make it easier to live with. When DH is off his meds I sometimes want to strangle him! He has a disability and I acknowledge that, but it doesn't make it easier to live with on a day-to-day basis when it means the effort of organizing everything falls on me. (Sorry if that sounds ablest to some people but I'm not NT myself and the the mental load wears very hard at times).

I am sure you have a lot to think about here and I wish you very well. Just to share a small part of our experience.

We suspect my daughter has adhd and after one particularly intense evening of tears and tantrums (all of us!), I mistakenly gave her a cup of tea the next morning.

She was ready before me! It’s not necessarily the caffeine, there another part of tea that helps, but obviously the tea has continued and the getting ready is easier and she tells me her mornings at school are much easier now!!

We are looking into more things to help of course! But just an unbelievable difference!!

He sounds so similar to my son. Please don’t feel just because he’s started high school you have to stop helping him. It is such a big change for our kids with or without SEn but with SEN his brain will be working overdrive to process all the new things he’s experiencing at school meaning his short term memory will be even worse. I despaired this time last year when my son started and we helped him with everything - he wouldn’t do homework unless I literally sat with him and kept reminding him to focus, he didn’t pack his bags own bags, has no idea of his timetable but slowly and surely he’s starting to do more of this himself.

it takes a lot of go against what society thinks our kids should be able to do but balls to them I say. If by you packing his bag and even helping him get dressed means you all arrive where you need to be at the time you need to be there and not stressed to high heavens then who’s to say that’s wrong. Xx

That is totally consistent with adha or autisms if we are interested in a topic we will soak it up, if we aren't it literally will not register at all and it's not deliberate. Can stand in a room with my parents and not hear a word of what there saying, nod and agree then off I go and won't have a clue what was said because I'm switched off and when switched off happens well it's just as annoying for us sufferers as it is for normal peeps. I'm surprised you've let this lie for so long I actually feel very sorry for him. Immediately I read post it was like your describing me except my parents knew from 13 and give them there due totally changed how they spoke,asked and talked to me and all the stress stopped. I couldn't cope with loads of info being thrown at once, so your mind switches off. Not deliberately