To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

If he has poor executive functioning he can probably only cope with one instruction at a time. My DGD is ASD and gets overloaded with lots of requests to do stuff. So for him when he gets up at 7 drum it into him he gets dressed immediately. Have a timer or alarm to remind him. Then bathroom to wash and brush teeth. Breakfast last even if it is on the run in the car with a cereal bar and banana. Bag packed the night before.

I really wish it were that easy to come up with one solution that works. Unfortunately it's a really difficult problem to deal with effectively. The only thing I can tell you categorically is that with ADHD it's not a lack of effort. We screw up things that we really, really, really want to do because we can't get our shit together.

Scanning back through the OP's comments again, she hasn't tried visual aids. She's written out a bullet point list - that's not the same thing.

Pictures are sometimes simpler to work through - because the brain processes these differently to a written word.

Also, she wrote a list - was it a list that he could engage with and tick things off as he did them? If it was just a list of things that he had to do, he'll lose where he got up to - that could be why it didn't work.

It might also just be too many things to work through. Sometimes, tasks need to be broken down into manageable chunks. On a bad day, this might mean literally one task at a time.

The same tasks every morning, done in the same order might also help. It will take a while, but done repeatedly in exactly the same way, it might start to stick.

Minimise possible disruptions - plan the order of the morning in a way so that it's harder to get distracted from one task. Make each task simple and singular before then returning to the visual aid. So for example, don't write "shower, get dressed, and brush your teeth". Too much in one go, and opportunities for distraction between each thing.

It's pointless expecting a child with ADHD to be capable of the same level of functioning as a neurotypical child. They may well get there in the end, but the chances are they're going to need a lot more support in the meantime. So that means you can't just remind him to do something and leave him to his own devices. And when he says he'll do something later - and he will be fully intending to do it later - I guarantee you he'll forget. OP will need to chivvy him to do the task right there and then. Whether that's hanging his PE kit on the door so he can't walk past it in the morning, or putting the schedule in the rucksack.

Lots of people with ADHD struggle with the concept of time - so setting alarms every 10 minutes to get him back on track might work. Alarms don't always work as you need to action the task right away, but it's worth a shot.

Also, if the environment is stressy and his anxious, his difficulties will increase. Calm, regular reminders, using simple language is what's needed. You can't leave a child with ADHD to just get on with things and sort themselves out. It takes years of practice, and years of fucking everything up repeatedly and just feeling like an absolute moron time after time after time after time.

I have two neurodivergent DC, one with particularly high needs. I know parenting a ND child is hard, especially as you need to support them so much more than you might have anticipated.

What I also would say is that if he has ADHD, then medication could literally transform his symptoms. Meds can make a huge difference to an individual with ADHD - they clear the brain and give the individual space to think and function.

Also sorry this is a long answer. There aren't really any shortcuts with ADHD. It's hard on the individual, and it's hard on their family.

Thank you all so much for all of your advice.
I'm reading all of it.
Thank you, for your support and advice. I am starting to sse things very differently overnight and this morning.
Your descriptions and advice have made me spend the past 12 hours reading and googling innatentive ADHD, executive functioning, auditory processing, all things that I either didn't know about or I'd heard about them but very obviously I didn't understand them properly,.
I sat down with him this morning and cuddled him and talked and I asked him all the right questions based on everything I've spent 12 hours reading and learning, and he answered my questions in a way he's never explained to me before, I think because I wasn't asking him in the right way before I'd read up about all this stuff, and he explained so much to me about his brain, his memory, his organisation, how it all works and how much it's impacting him. And I really listened to him.
Your descriptions of ADHD are making me go from looking through a glass window at my DS who is on the other side and I'm trying to smile at him and show him I'm here for him but the glass is misty and although I can see him I can't see him really clearly and I can't tell what he's doing or thinking, but with reading all your posts and replies and explanations and learning everything I've read online since yesterday evening , this morning I feel like I'm wiping the misty glass with a cloth someone's given me to use and now I can suddenly see him so much more clearly. And he's smiling back at me, because now he is starting to feel seen and understood.

OP that made me cry. 💝 You are a great mom. You and ds are going to be just fine. xx

That's beautifully written OP and I totally relate to what you are saying. You've handled this wonderfully with you son and I bet he feels relief at the conversation and hugs too.

As the mother of a DS with ADHD this made me cry too. What a lovely mum you are. Well done, hope you can get more help now you understand.

This is lovely, you've taken the time to research and understand what everyone has said and you've properly taken it on board. What a brilliant mum you are. I hope there will be things you can put in place to really help your son, I'm sure you'll be able to find ways now that you know what's truly going on.

This was picked up in my son when he was 6/in year 1. The school had an educational psychologist assessed him and found his executive functioning was on a very low percentile. Speak to the SEN and ask for an educational psychologist assessment. My son needs a routine, written down prompts, constant reminders. The way the educational psychologist helped me to understand what he does is, he struggles to retain info, so.i could send him upstairs to do something, by the time he is in his room. He's forgotten, his executive functioning means cognitively he doesn't retain information or he needs the information inputting in a different ways with lots of reminders. I find my son needs to interrupt conversations because if were to wait he would forgot what he was going to say. He just cannot help it

I'm sorry but it 100% sounds like he has ADHD/on the spectrum. I'd be looking in to getting his assessed rather than getting angry.

This sounds identical to my DS6 who is being assessed for ADHD. I would definitely investigate further

Get him assessed ASAP. The process can be long and drawn out, start now before he gets too into secondary school- he'll need to be more stable for his GCSEs.

This is a good lesson to you to not rely on what you think you know- you must always know for sure before ruling things out. He's spent years in the awful misunderstood haze of ADHD, completely alone. Now get him some help

Hyper focus is a trait of ADHD and ADD....as others have said. Our daughter has ADHD and is exactly like your son. I think natural consequences do have an impact but it's limited. Punishment won't work. I wouldn't personally have rescued him around the PE kit but you need to decide what you want to do around those kind of issues. He isn't trying to make your life or his own difficult but it can feel like that!

This brought me to tears. You’re an amazing mum.

To get a diagnosis for ADHD, he will need to see a psychiatrist. You need to ask your GP yo do a referral. The waiting time is likely to be years.

Alternatively you can see a private psychiatrist. They will charge about £1000.
It's expensive.

But once you get the diagnosis, you can get the school SEND team to help- extra time for exams etc.

You can get additional help from psychologists and by joining ADHD family support groups.

You could consider medication which the psychiatrist would guide you with.

I would just get everything ready for him rather than expecting him to do it if it causes you to be late everyday. But sounds like the stress of the morning is making him go into fight and flight mode so he ends up forgetting things.
I’d explore if he has SEN and what can you do to help him.

My children are both nerurodiverse and are both like this -

My daughter has dyslexia and my son is awaiting an official diagnosis of ADHD and poss ASD (bloody waiting lists!): they are both on the SEN register at school.

They both struggle with working memory and executive function … and so do I. I am starting to realise I am most certainly undiagnosed ND myself.

I recognise that sick clammy feeling of forgetting my timetable / PE kit and I really was doing my best. I’ve turned out ok and an am now doing a PhD! I’ve developed coping strategies and now that I’m recognising what I’ve been doing to manage all these years I am trying to coach my kids… but they are young and it’s going to take them time plus trial & error to find their own ways to manage.

Honestly sounds like you need to get them up earlier and sort yourself out so your not stressed rushing around…

As an ADHD diagnosed person this really resonated with me. It sounds severe though. He definitely needs some help

OP your last post is lovely, you are lovely!

Your boy is lucky you’ve realised at this age

@FluthyFeaffers my boy is just like yours (he’s 10 in year 5). It is exhausting. He will lose EVERYTHING if I don’t constantly remind him. It drives me crazy. I’ve had to lose my rag with him in order for him to see how disorganised he is. My DH is very similar, so I’m not sure if it’s hereditary. I’ve tried lists, I’ve tried banning technology or anything that will distract him - he will then wander off and play with the dog, find a ball and play with that… We did query ADHD as the constant repetition of tasks was getting a real concern, even with the school. It’s so hard, but you have my sympathies. Hopefully one day it will “click”.

Er... he sounds exactly like my son, and no he can't help it. I would get an assessment rolling if I were you!

Everything needs to be done the night before. Bag packed all ready and at door. You’ll have to stand over him whilst he is doing it. Uniform all out and ready.

Dedicate 30 minutes in the evening to make sure it happens. In the morning he just needs to get dressed and leave house. Breakfast is a bonus.

Honestly stating your child does not have SEN and this screams of ADHD

Sorry haven’t read the whole thread so someone will have already said this but it sounds like inattentive ADHD. My daughter was exactly the same. No idea of time, routine etc but could hyper focus on her interests. We ended up getting a private diagnosis as the NHS wait was too long and it was causing her a lot of distress and anxiety. A few years on and with the help of medication she is able to manage it much better now. I hope you manage to get your son some help, I know the stress it can cause to the whole family.