To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

I have diagnosed combined type (although mainly inattentive) ADHD and most likely ASD as well.

I can almost 100% guarantee that your child has ADHD as well. And honestly, given the length of your posts and detail you go into, I bet my money that you do as well, or at least some other form of Neurodiversity. I am very similar to you with my lengthy detailed replies, but they're just structured differently to yours.

Your posts and accounts with your son are painful to read because I see myself in them as well as my own son. I was not diagnosed until 40 despite my parents working in education. My husband insists my son doesn't have it (it's largely generic and hereditary) and refuses to allow me to get my son tested.

There are loads of threads on here about ADHD and loads of info online. The waitlist for ADHD diagnosis in both adults and children is years long now. It's an awful and broken diagnostic process. If you're able to, I would urge you to go private.

Listening problems could be Auditory Processing Disorder which shares some of the same symptoms as ADHD.

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/conditions/auditory-processing-disorder
It can't be diagnosed with an ordinary hearing test. It's more about how the brain processes and experiences noise. Trouble with short term memory and ability to follow instructions can be part of it.

Whether he has SEN or not I think you need to approach this as if he does. One of my friends has a son a bit like this, he cannot hold more than one thought at a time.

A list is too much.

Give him one instruction, give the instructions in the same order every day.

He has to have his rucksack and PE bag and whatever ready before he goes to bed (but tell him by 6 o'clock because you know he is going to dawdle).

Put them at the front door so you would literally have to step over them to get out the door.

One instruction at a time, so 'brush your teeth' - go to the bathroom with him and watch.

Get dressed - if he can't be trusted then he needs to have his uniform out the night before but in the living room where he will get dressed under supervision.

Breakfast, make some toast, wrap in foil he can eat in the car.

Eventually (hopefully be VI form) it will become a habit for him.

My DS has ADD without H. He had H when he was little but then hyperactivity went away. You described him through his school years. Hyper focus is part of ADD. Any subject he was interested in he researched in great details for hours. I remember his A levels economics teacher telling me he has never met a student who had such a deep knowledge of economics - he read so much about it and knew so much but then again never delivered his homework on time.
you need to get him to educational phycologist for diagnosis. Unfortunately waiting time through NHS will be very long so if you have possibility to do it privately do it. I did this for my DS, he was prescribed medication and then we brought diagnosis and prescription to our GP and it was free after. Depending on severity he also might be recommended up to 20% extra time during exams and breaks which would be very handy during GCSEs, A levels and uni exams. Remember, his attention will drift off during exams and he might not get grades he deserves.
Your DS seems to be very bright hence school didn’t pick up on this yet. Children like him usually dream through the lesson. But he will struggle more as he grows up. My DS was not diagnosed until A levels. I always suspected it but he had good grades and I didn’t feel a need as he managed. When he was doing his A levels he actually self diagnosed himself and asked to get an appointment with educational psychologist as he was struggling. He just finished his masters so you can fully function with ADD, don’t worry 🙂

I'm another one who would guess you have ADHD as well.

Your detailed lists read like my thoughts patterns.

I understand you wanting to run away and hide yet at the same time fiercely loving them, it's REALLY hard work!!

My younger DC has ADHD (mixed type) and trying to get him ready in the morning is like trying to hold jelly in my hands. My older DC is likely autistic but also appears to have ADHD (inattentive type), and they both have lots of sensory issues. Our mornings are tough.

Please do also consider Auditory Processing Disorder for your DS. A young relative has it, along with inattentive ADHD and sounds just like your DS.

Also, medication might help your DS to focus his thoughts enough to improve his executive function. Worth considering.

My child has ADD and you’ve described him here

Exactly what I was about to post.

@FluthyFeaffers I think you and your DS would benefit from testing for and discussion about ADD/ADHD... I don't think it's just him!

In describing your DS you could be describing me - my sister was dx ADHD (but in the 80s so the result was 'yes, she has ADHD, its because you let her play with lego and you're all mad, go away and deal with it'... ), I wasn't, because I didn't run around like a lunatic like she did, so clearly wasn't 'hyperactive'.

At 8, when she was DX there was no way I could explain that whilst I might be sat down, not moving (but probably hyperfocussed on something or trying to do three things at once), my BRAIN was going like the bloody clappers and would not shut up.

I would get endless bollockings for 'not listening', but I was trying, and then I'd realise I hadn't heard half of what was said. I started doodling as I found that when doodling, I was listening far better - I got yelled at for doodling, doodling equipment removed - and tuned out again and heard nothing.

I hope this thread has helped you see whats really going on here, and it helps you and your DS live life a little more easily!

He has got ADHD a million percent.

Do more.of the jobs for 11. PE kit goes in the the night before. The timetable gets put in his bag for him. Get up at 5am if you need to, me and my kids do. You need to do more, not just issue instructions.

I really feel for you. My daughter is the same. Some days I could merrily do time for her. Medication for ADHD saved us

Sounds like he has issues with executive functioning, autism? Add, adhd

Five different coloured cards with elastic bands attached.
Each one has one task - like "pack lunch bag" or "brush teeth"
Two boxes.
Pick a card from one box - keep hold of it on your wrist until and while you do the task. Once it's done, put it in the second box.
Pick another card.

The tasks need to be one or two step - so not "pack school bag" because that has so many elements, PE, books, etc..

And you will need to check that these things have been done. So to avoid morning pain, do it the night before.

Hyper focus is a prime ADHD symptom. It's also really commonly ignored and so people with hyperfocus are under diagnosed because we aren't showing traditional ADHD signs.

He has ADHD OP.....

One thing you can do is talk to him about ADHD. The understanding of it will stop him feeling so bad about himself once he knows it's not his fault. If he knows why he has 'listening problems' he is old enough to get on board with finding strategies that work to help him.

One of the worst things about ADHD is low self esteem.

OP, I know you're exhausted and you've tried so very hard to support your DS but hearing your description of his apology, my heart absolutely breaks for him.

Like PP, I instantly thought ADHD - and when you said you have another child with SEN, I was even more certain. Depending on what his fine and gross motor skills are like, dyspraxia - aka developmental co-ordination disorder - might be worth considering too. There are issues with time management, executive functioning, and organisation with dyspraxia, with big overlaps with ADHD and autism.

I'm an adult woman who is autistic with ADHD.

I go into the bathroom to get ready. My DP will call up 30 minutes later to see if I'm ready and I haven't even gotten into the shower. I can't even tell you what I was doing. When I am ready, there's a very good chance I won't make it out of the front door for another hour or so unless there's someone nagging me. My brain just won't stay still long enough for me to focus on what I'm supposed to do.

This is what the ADHD mind is like:

Imagine there's a bunch of balloons, and you have one balloon that you're focussing on which is very important. Then you notice another balloon is about to fly off, so you turn your attention to that balloon and grab it quickly. Then once that balloon is OK, you turn back round but you can't remember what balloon you were looking at before. And while you're wondering, suddenly you spot another balloon is about to fly off, and then another. Your brain can't keep up with itself trying to keep hold of all the balloons. And to be honest, you've totally forgotten there was just one balloon at the start because you're now in the middle of them all and grabbing at different strings while others slide out of your hands. It's utterly exhausting trying to keep all the balloons. And it's constant. Your brain pulls this shit on you all day long, and you know you're crap at things that other people can do without any effort and it makes you feel utterly worthless. Especially when people get angry at you for not being able to do this basic, easy stuff. And you hate yourself for being so useless, even though you're trying so hard to be "better". There's just too many damn balloons to take care of.

Your DS is trying so very hard, and doing the best he can. Usual reminders do absolutely nothing. You'll need to employ different methods to support him, and you might need to accept that he'll need more support than a neurotypical child of the same age.

Please, please start to seek out some help for him.

Sounds like me, im ADHD

I read a tip on here once for getting ready in the morning. At first I thought it was madly indulgent parenting, but then realised that it could actually work really well for some. It was to bring the child their breakfast in bed, including a warm drink, on a lap tray. Eating the breakfast brings on a bathroom visit and then they shower/get dressed straight afterwards. A lot therefore gets done before they even come downstairs.

Also look up ‘binaural beats’ music - it is instrumental music with very long, steady sounds and is sometimes described as focus music. I use a Youtube channel called ‘Brainwave Power Music’ to help me get work done sometimes.

Once the school bag is packed, seal it with a cable tie?

I very rarely comment however your post described my daughter down to a t. For the last 2 years we have exactly the same problems with school etc. We are late every day no matter how much I organise things and help her. We are late for almost every club, event etc. I've been waiting on a referral to the peadiatrician for years to diagnose adhd but have been told the waiting time is massive. I didn't think at first like yourself it was adhd because I assumed it was for hyperactive people. It's hard. I know where your coming from. Just takes loads of patience and organising/planning in advance. (And 5 minutes to yourself to breath when it's all a bit much)

He sounds like my daughter I’d say he does have sen. My daughter has dyspraxia and struggles with planning and cannot hold multiple instructions. For her we need consistency every morning goes the same minute by minute and yes I still help but less so now she’s year 8, lists are also required. I help her pack her school bag daily and remind her to check her list that we keep by the door of everything she might need and she checks it off as she reads it. She still forgets things but the school are more lenient as she is on Sen register. She’s also paranoid of detentions like you Son and suffers crippling anxiety of things go wrong or plans change unexpectedly. I’d urge you to look at reasons why he is like this and not just assume that he can help it.

I would stop reminding him. After the 3rd time if he still forgets to pack his bags he needs to suffer the natural consequences of what follows.
It’ll be awful as he seems really upset already but how else will he learn.

100% ADD

Does he do all these things whilst staring at a phone or a tablet?

I would prep everything the night before with him and wake him half hour earlier.

no tv or anything.

( I wouldn’t have gone back for the PE kit!)

If he's neurodivergent he won't "learn" by having to accept the consequences because executive functioning in the brain doesn't work like that.

If we could all opt out of our ADHD difficulties by just trying a little bit harder, that would be great but unfortunately that's not the case.

All that will happen is that he'll feel even more humiliated and shitter about his difficulties. Neurodivergent teens tend to have a lot of difficulties around self-esteem and mental health, partly caused by feeling like failures compared to everyone else.

Yes agree with everyone re ADHD.I know its really frustrating for you but you are going to have to handhold him through this school year. He is still young. Going on at him just isn't working and you are both getting really stressed. Start looking at this as though he has a diagnosis and give him and yourself a break. You wouldn't expect an 7 year old boy to get himself out the door with all the right stuff so you need to see him that age in terms of his ability to get ready and remember stuff. He will just be getting more stressed and be put off school. Go to form teacher and ask for support /referral and go to GP and explain the situation. He needs help.

What’s the answer for the OP then. She’s made him visual aids, gives verbal instructions numerous times and used sticker charts etc - what’s the next step?

That sounds like ADHD.

Until he figures out his own strategy for getting organised I would help him if I were you. Pack his bag the night before with him. Have a list on a board he can tick off. Weekly story board with PE etc on appropriate day. My DGD who has SEN has one and my daughter moves the arrow on so she knows what day it is. Lay out Uniform the night before and have toothpaste on brush read for him to brush his teeth. No electronics or TV until he is ready then allow 10 minutes extra.