To think it is actually mostly men?

[Nolpp]

Maybe I didn’t get the memo in the past but in the last year or so I’ve been so bitterly disappointed by make behaviour. I look back and wonder if it was always this way but I’m only just noticing. I think part of it is I recently became a single parent and so I’ve had more dealings with men than I would usually, as I’ve had to speak to insurance companies, take car for MOT etc. Obviously I did some of these things before and I know women also work in these places but overall I am having more interaction with men.

Examples…

Driving. Whenever a car is right up behind me it is ALWAYS a man driving. I drive at the speed limit, not under, so presumably they think speed limits don’t apply to them.

I recently donated to a sponsorship for cancer research, an old school friend, quite literally not spoken in over two decades. He then messaged me to thank me for the donation and followed it up with a question about sex and positions he can do after his surgery. Why would anyone think that’s ok?

A colleague, well respected in his industry, tells me when drunk on a night out that he wishes all women conformed to the way of the 50s and stayed at home. He wasn’t joking.

In Sainsbury’s a week ago, a man grabbed my arse in a queue, I was shocked and stepped to one side, didn’t know what to do and said get the fuck away from me. I was next up for the till and the man behind the till said he does it to everyone !!! What the actual fuck? He did follow up to say they had tried to ban him from the shop. I cried in the car afterwards, it was awful.

Waiting for the baby changing unit in Mc Donnalds. A man eventually emerges, mutters sorry but he couldn’t wait, and looked sheepish. He wasn’t unwell, he was downing a Mc flurry when I came out.

Around 7 years ago I used to date someone who had recently got a job as a Judge in the family courts. He was very young to have got this job and in part it was to do with his father being a judge in the same court. Anyway one day we were talking about how money is worked out in a divorce and he said ‘it’s disgusting, women expect to be paid out after staying at home doing nothing with kids for fifteen years, so rather than getting a job of their own they steal the x husband’s pension.’ I am ashamed to say I laughed and agreed with him. I had a good job with no interest in giving it up so I felt I was compatible with this man who I now see was a bit of a monster.

I honestly feel like men make up the bulk of shit behaviour. It probably sounds dramatic but I actually feel sad about it, genuinely sad. And embarrassed that it’s taken me until this late in life to see it.

Yes, I know it’s not all men.

Rant over.

It’s not all men but I think it’s fair to say it’s probably about 30% of men - another 50% of men observe it and either don’t care or think it’s funny - with around 20% of the male population actually being decent and caring about women’s rights and equality. 96% of the prison population are male. That’s not a coincidence.

Most men I've worked with have been seemingly nice enough blokes and more often than not married with kids. I've worked in quite a wide range of places, from portacabins on building sites to hospitality and high end investment companies but casual sexism is rife and truly vile comments are not particularly uncommon. This isn't because I've been horrendously unlucky.

No wonder so many young men kill themselves
My 3 boys are spectacular
in fact my eldest was emotionally abused by a girl
Absolutely HATE this demonisation of males
And this comes from a woman who was horrifically abused by their dad

And I have 3 sisters
my ex husband was an abuser, not because he is a man, because he is an abuser
I’m so sick of this anti male rhetoric
my boy’s friends are all decent, polite, engaging young men
i went to an all girls school, the hardest 7 years of my life

I'm really sorry to hear that you've had such bad experiences with men.
I have very different experiences. I work in a very large office that is probably 50/50 male female. Within that office I work in a mostly female team with a male manager. The manager has been described as a bit 'wet' by people in the past. He's not cool, not your alpha male by any stretch. He's a lovely guy actually.
recently the women in my team were all laughing and joking as someone had questioned what his cum face would be, and doing an impression of his voice in the 'moment'. At the time I thought, if this was men talking about women it would be considered vile and misogynistic. It WAS vile, and I didn't like it at all.
Sexual banter happens with both sexes. I've heard women talking about male penises, laughing about men's physiques. The difference is, men are expected to take it, as they are the dominant sex, and women feel its harmless.

Misogyny isnt rife at all in my workplace and one big instance of it was recently reported by a man in that friendship group and the guy was sacked. Things are changing, and have changed a lot, I would be interested to see some of these work places that a lot of you are talking about. I'm not denying they exist, but it is a totally different experience to what I have.

The hardest managers I’ve ever had have been women
I work in IT
male dominated
I’ve felt massively bullied by women bosses when I was pregnant

i despair
so glad my boys feel loved and applauded, but more than anything, taught how to have healthy relationships

What I mean by this is that it's not a 'man problem' in the sense that it's not going to be solved by targeted measures aimed at men in general. It is a world away from most male experiences.
It is a problem specific to certain areas and cultures. My dad or husband for example would be no more able to relate to that life than I would. It's a specific group of men, a product of what is in some ways a broken society. It 100% needs addressing, but most of the victims of gang violence are also men and boys.

Sorry I'm playing catch up, not trying to target you.
I think it is reflected in the media actually. Barely a week went by living in south London where there wasn't another stabbing or murder of a male, and these are victims too. Many victims of gang violence are just men and boys that happen to live in the wrong place.
Also the media only report on stories that will be of public interest. Can you imagine anyone taking notice of '20 year old man gets punched at arsenal game', or 30 year old man is assaulted leaving London nightclub'
It is just seen as fair game, laddish behaviour, it isn't 'news'. But each one is someone's son or brother and each one is devastating for that family. The violence is very much perpetrated by men, I'm not denying that for a second, just pointing out that men are victims too, so everyone should work together to stop it, not just renentlessly demonize men. I hate this NAMALT thing, it just tries to silence one half of the debate.

A dad told the women at football today they should do a Ref course and run the line because it isn’t fair on the men. I told him it’s good to see men stepping up for their kids. But inside I was very ANGRY. So many things stop me from running the line. The fact that I wasn’t bought up with football as a choice because it was a man’s game, the fact I have less confidence to stand up to angry dads managing their daughters from the side lines and being aggressive. So many things.

Sorry I agree with her
and I promise I am a woman
feminism should be about allowing girls to have every opportunity boys have
this man hatred is reverse misogyny

I would describe what I experience as fear rather than hatred.

Even when you look at male suicide you see how some men take their wife and children with them. A while ago we were told that murder-suicide was on the rise. It is a crime that is particular mostly to men. I guess that it demonstrates a peculiar form of masculinity - I have read that some men who do it cannot imagine their wives and children surviving without them. You’d think they would give them the choice.

If you met my exh you would understand completely why I was taken in. He is the kind of man you would hope your daughters end up with. A man of integrity and kindness. Only he wasn’t. He had this sense of entitlement and was enraged that I was more successful than he was (in the eyes of the world) So jealous.

His actions were extreme but most women experience more subtle forms of abuse on a regular basis. Some are so inured to it that they don’t even recognise the behaviour as abusive.

Sometimes I’m in my kitchen feeling guilty for leaving the dishes til the morning, and then I remember some things men do with no guilt whatsoever and the sudden cognitive dissonance makes me almost dizzy!

They [men] are rarely the victims of murder or rape by simply going about their normal everyday lives such as taking a taxi, walking home from work or getting into a fucking police car.

So name me a few innocent women shot by the police. Of all the many riots in the last decade over unlawful killings I dont remember a single one being about a female. I can only think of Sarah Everard who was killed by a lone psycho, not systematic violence involving several officers.

Protection - advising men how to protect themselves from violence when out, or to consider not going into risky situations.

There's a phrase for this advice when applied to women. It's 'victim blaming'. She shouldn't have gone there, especially not in that short skirt. 🙄

I don’t recall these incidents involving white men either.

You don't recall any of these incidents being white men? Do you think perhaps that's because it just doesn't interest you?
Seeing as the riots were about the killings started in the States, here's some stats for you, in 2022 alone, over 1000 men were killed by police in the states, 1000! and the rate was nearly double for white men than black.
In 2023 at the point the stats were taken in the summer, 151 men white men had been murdered by police, VS 86 black.
In 2022 44 females were killed VS over 1000 males. Males commit 85% of crime approximately, so the rate of female murder by police is about a third of what you'd expect if it were to proportional to crime commited.

You can slice and dice stats all you want, but the overwhelming evidence is that you are far more at risk of being murdered by police as a man and you definitely are not safe just by being white.

I’m useless with numbers but even to me your stats don’t seem that overwhelming and even less so after a quick check of US demographics where 250m of the population are white and 40m black. You’re good with maths so it would be great if you could recalibrate with this in mind.

So do black men not matter to you?

@Natalya123

"I can only think of Sarah Everard who was killed by a lone psycho, not systematic violence involving several officers."

Are you for real? Met police officers (and in other forces) have been tumbling like dominos as the depths of misogyny, Whatsapp messages about rape and violence against women have come to light. Some of these messages were shared with Wayne Cousins, Sarah's murderer, whilst his flashing exploits were conveniently overlooked. This isn't about "one lone psycho" and this isn't about me having a jolly time man bashing. This is very real endemic and dangerous behaviour. There has also been a recent expose about similar vile practices by male consultants in the NHS. That might be acceptable to you, but it's not for me and all the other women I know.

Ok, so give me a few examples of women unlawfully shot by the police if they are so much more at risk of being killed than men.

Even when you look at male suicide you see how some men take their wife and children with them. A while ago we were told that murder-suicide was on the rise. It is a crime that is particular mostly to men. I guess that it demonstrates a peculiar form of masculinity - I have read that some men who do it cannot imagine their wives and children surviving without them. You’d think they would give them the choice.

The men who kill their whole families are a totally different subject. Please do not minimise the awful facts about male suicides being on the up.

@Natalya123

Here's a link to people shot by police. They are all men and all but one were armed and posing a serious and immediate danger to the public or had already killed one or more people. You are actually proving my earlier point that very few men are stalked, preyed upon and killed in random attacks, so thanks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom

The point I was making was that in these cases it was more about racist violence against black men rather than random violence against white men as the poster seemed to be alluding.

Racism has similarities to misogyny.

@itsaquarterafterone

I don't think (or at least I sincerely hope) that no-one would minimise male suicide but it it true that far too often men elect to take their children, or entire families with them. This is extremely rare behaviour for women and I don't really see why this is "a totally different subject". I think it is very relevant to a thread exploring male violence against women.

They [men] are rarely the victims of murder or rape by simply going about their normal everyday lives such as taking a taxi, walking home from work or getting into a fucking police car.

So name me a few innocent women shot by the police. Of all the many riots in the last decade over unlawful killings I dont remember a single one being about a female. I can only think of Sarah Everard who was killed by a lone psycho, not systematic violence involving several officers.

Why are you diverting from the original point (men raping and murdering women) into women shot by police officers?

The Met are expecting 2-3 cases A WEEK of police wrongdoing including violence against women. There have been several recently of police officers being jailed for rape.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/25/met-commissioner-predicts-two-or-three-officers-to-face-trial-every-week

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/22/former-met-police-officer-jailed-for-of-female-colleague-and-16-year-old-girl

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/news/met-police-officer-david-carrick-admits-to-being-serial-rapist/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66737880.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-66960129.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2023/09/13/manchester-police-officer-raped-sexually-assaulted-child-sentenced-19495601/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-66036862.amp

These are the results of a cursory Google, all this year.