To think it is actually mostly men?

[Nolpp]

Maybe I didn’t get the memo in the past but in the last year or so I’ve been so bitterly disappointed by make behaviour. I look back and wonder if it was always this way but I’m only just noticing. I think part of it is I recently became a single parent and so I’ve had more dealings with men than I would usually, as I’ve had to speak to insurance companies, take car for MOT etc. Obviously I did some of these things before and I know women also work in these places but overall I am having more interaction with men.

Examples…

Driving. Whenever a car is right up behind me it is ALWAYS a man driving. I drive at the speed limit, not under, so presumably they think speed limits don’t apply to them.

I recently donated to a sponsorship for cancer research, an old school friend, quite literally not spoken in over two decades. He then messaged me to thank me for the donation and followed it up with a question about sex and positions he can do after his surgery. Why would anyone think that’s ok?

A colleague, well respected in his industry, tells me when drunk on a night out that he wishes all women conformed to the way of the 50s and stayed at home. He wasn’t joking.

In Sainsbury’s a week ago, a man grabbed my arse in a queue, I was shocked and stepped to one side, didn’t know what to do and said get the fuck away from me. I was next up for the till and the man behind the till said he does it to everyone !!! What the actual fuck? He did follow up to say they had tried to ban him from the shop. I cried in the car afterwards, it was awful.

Waiting for the baby changing unit in Mc Donnalds. A man eventually emerges, mutters sorry but he couldn’t wait, and looked sheepish. He wasn’t unwell, he was downing a Mc flurry when I came out.

Around 7 years ago I used to date someone who had recently got a job as a Judge in the family courts. He was very young to have got this job and in part it was to do with his father being a judge in the same court. Anyway one day we were talking about how money is worked out in a divorce and he said ‘it’s disgusting, women expect to be paid out after staying at home doing nothing with kids for fifteen years, so rather than getting a job of their own they steal the x husband’s pension.’ I am ashamed to say I laughed and agreed with him. I had a good job with no interest in giving it up so I felt I was compatible with this man who I now see was a bit of a monster.

I honestly feel like men make up the bulk of shit behaviour. It probably sounds dramatic but I actually feel sad about it, genuinely sad. And embarrassed that it’s taken me until this late in life to see it.

Yes, I know it’s not all men.

Rant over.

I've learnt things off of @5128gap who comes across as intelligent but straight to the point. Thank you.

I think sadly you are right, my husband said the same Judy after the Russell Branc stuff came out. I felt uncomfortable and said ‘surely not that many!’ He said ‘I unfortunately know a lot of men who would’ he’s worked in male dominated industries frequently and reads sport forums.

No need to thank her, her analysis was equally as bad as yours, full of hyperbole and exaggeration. I don't know why people feel the need to say things like 'i can't take you seriously' it's just deliberately belittling. There is zero maturity shown on your side of the debate.

I suspect certain posters have issues about other things because of how nasty they are.

I thought the dog hating threads were bad.

If you can describe my opinion that everybody should treat each other with respect as “double standards” and “blatant bias” then I know that you haven’t thought about what I’ve said.

I get the impression that you’re not interested in finding a solution to male violence, you just want to make sure there’s a win for team women.

I'm afraid it's nothing but the truth. The poster has been trying for several pages to draw an equivalence between women discussing their wariness of men and their fear that they or their daughters will become one of the one in three women who is sexually assaulted by a man (or discussing their experience of already being one), with the toxic misogyny that has literally killed women (Elliot Rodger, etc etc etc and infinitum). Who are trying to suggest that these things are in some way shape or form "the same", and the difference is only a question I degree, and that both views are as harmful as each other to relations between sexes. Even the implication that the relationship is causal (women's fear of men causes men's hatred of women, as opposed to the opposite being true) and that women who are wary of men are responsible first and foremost to not upsetting young men and "making" them misogynists. Just one more look at the statistics about harm (actual harm, not hurt feels) done by men to women and vice versa, and I'm sorry but no. I can't take that seriously, because it is not serious. It is nonsense.

Fine, “hate” is too strong a word. But as I’ve already said several times, many women are saying they dislike all men. That gives the strong impression that they dislike all men.

As for the incels, I said there was a difference of degree. They’re not identical. But the two situations arise in similar ways.

Ok literally what ARE you talking about now.

Or is it that your hatred of statistical facts extends to dogs as well, and you're one of those "deed not breed" people?

I say again, quote? You keep saying people are saying this but won't say who exactly.

And there is nothing "similar" about a man being turned down for sex and a woman being raped. None.

The only meaningful win for "team women" would be for "team men" to stop raping and killing us in such disproportionate numbers. I don't see it happening any time soon.

You, that's what I'm talking about.

@PaulaZackMayo

I certainly agree with you on the dog hating threads. Read one the other day and wished I hadn't.

I haven’t said that male violence and women’s fear of male violence are the same.

I haven’t said that women’s first duty is not to upset men.

I said that if we’re interested in finding a solution to male violence, we should allow for the fact that men are human, that they are affected by how women treat them, and we stand more chance of success if we can treat them as individuals instead of demonising the whole group.

I suspect you aren't a dog lover.

No, but I'm sure you can find a way to twist anything I say.

You suspect correctly, but I fail to see that this has anything whatsoever to do with the subject under discussion. Seems like you've run out of coherent arguments and are now just trying the find ways to insult me.

I don't love cats either. Or guinea pigs. Or even goldfish. What does that tell you about my stance on misogyny vs misandry?

Horses? Everyone likes horses.

I Love Horses and Elephants

Elephants I love. Horses scare the crap out of me but my daughter's love them (it seems to be a rite of passage for all small girls to go through a horse phase, and they are deeeeep in it right now). Basically I like animals in the wild where I can admire their wonderful ways from a distance and not have to interact with them too much. I'm sure they mostly prefer it that way too!

My dog would hate living in the wild. He's too much of a wimp. He'd die of starvation or be eaten because he is only small.

Why on earth should women treat men with respect when they don't treat us with respect?

If you can describe my opinion that women should not have to suffer the violence from men that we do as "man hating" then I think you are not interested in solving the problem of male violence, you just want to make sure everyone knows that not all men are like that.

Noone has said they dislike all men.

Women are saying they are wary of all men.

If I'd been bitten by dogs as many times as I've been sexually assaulted by men, noone would tell me I was being unreasonable to be wary of them.