To think it is actually mostly men?

[Nolpp]

Maybe I didn’t get the memo in the past but in the last year or so I’ve been so bitterly disappointed by make behaviour. I look back and wonder if it was always this way but I’m only just noticing. I think part of it is I recently became a single parent and so I’ve had more dealings with men than I would usually, as I’ve had to speak to insurance companies, take car for MOT etc. Obviously I did some of these things before and I know women also work in these places but overall I am having more interaction with men.

Examples…

Driving. Whenever a car is right up behind me it is ALWAYS a man driving. I drive at the speed limit, not under, so presumably they think speed limits don’t apply to them.

I recently donated to a sponsorship for cancer research, an old school friend, quite literally not spoken in over two decades. He then messaged me to thank me for the donation and followed it up with a question about sex and positions he can do after his surgery. Why would anyone think that’s ok?

A colleague, well respected in his industry, tells me when drunk on a night out that he wishes all women conformed to the way of the 50s and stayed at home. He wasn’t joking.

In Sainsbury’s a week ago, a man grabbed my arse in a queue, I was shocked and stepped to one side, didn’t know what to do and said get the fuck away from me. I was next up for the till and the man behind the till said he does it to everyone !!! What the actual fuck? He did follow up to say they had tried to ban him from the shop. I cried in the car afterwards, it was awful.

Waiting for the baby changing unit in Mc Donnalds. A man eventually emerges, mutters sorry but he couldn’t wait, and looked sheepish. He wasn’t unwell, he was downing a Mc flurry when I came out.

Around 7 years ago I used to date someone who had recently got a job as a Judge in the family courts. He was very young to have got this job and in part it was to do with his father being a judge in the same court. Anyway one day we were talking about how money is worked out in a divorce and he said ‘it’s disgusting, women expect to be paid out after staying at home doing nothing with kids for fifteen years, so rather than getting a job of their own they steal the x husband’s pension.’ I am ashamed to say I laughed and agreed with him. I had a good job with no interest in giving it up so I felt I was compatible with this man who I now see was a bit of a monster.

I honestly feel like men make up the bulk of shit behaviour. It probably sounds dramatic but I actually feel sad about it, genuinely sad. And embarrassed that it’s taken me until this late in life to see it.

Yes, I know it’s not all men.

Rant over.

So why are you spending so much time on this thread which is for people who consider this issue important?

There was also the story of the woman who was walking home drunk and was sexually assaulted twice by two completely unrelated men.

Generalising by a minority of women on MN is not going to hurt anyone though, is it? Mens grasp on power and privelege is very strong, and the patriarchy isn't going to collapse on its knees in the face of a mob of hate filled women any time soon.
As for your harmless young boy, well in the highly unlikely event he saw a MN thread, then any harm would be balanced by the elevation, celebration and advantage given to him over women on the basis of his sex, in every other sphere of his life, so again, what real harm?
As for holding women responsible for creating misogynist, no, don't lay that at our door. Misogyny existed long before women were allowed a voice, and men chose whether to reject or embrace it based purely on their own characters and decency. Men are not objects on a production line operated by women. They have autonomy and free will and its entirely their choice if they use it to hurt us.

Ugh was just looking for that news article and found this one instead 😭That poor poor child. She'd be in her early 20s now. I can only imagine what her life has been since this awful night:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/29/two-men-arrested-girls-raped-twice-witton-birmingham

I've explained I didn't mean male violence. I meant that I don't worry that the men in my life would do that horrific thing Stephen Corrigan did if they had the chance. I don't think they would.

Don't go along with the poster twisting my words.

I definitely did not mean male violence.

Fuck me, I worry about the women/girls in my life. I've spoken to my Son on how never to mistreat his Girlfriend (& other women).

I did a bit of quick research and it seems that Boris was involved once in a restaurant getting smashed up. I don't see how that compares to murdering people, seriously assaulting people, using guns and knives to sell drugs.

Like I said, that’s not what I’m doing.

I think we’ve made a lot of progress over the last hundred years in improving women’s voice and power. And I think we can go further and do better. But I don’t think generalised man-hating comments are a persuasive method.

No. The comment wasn’t putting those two things together. It was a digression during the main discussion not a contribution to it - at least I saw it that way.

But as was mentioned by someone earlier women need a place to vent and share their stories. MN is better equipped for this than most other spaces.

You seem to think you are invisible and nobody pays the slightest attention to what you think.

Everybody has the power to affect other people with what they say. “Even” women are capable of affecting men. I would recommend behaving as if what you say and do matters.

Maybe not but neither are they "making misogynists". Misogynists arise all on their own in the fertile environment of patriarchy and always have.

I assume you are spending just as much time on Reddit exhorting thd red-pillers to do the same thing?

Go for it. But it’s a discussion forum. So if I think that a narrative is being created that all men are horrible, I can share my reservations about that too. And my reservations are that that narrative is making the problem worse not better.

Not just those reasons. Each case will be a complicated mix of personal experience.

I feel equally - or more - strongly that they are wrong.

But are you over there scolding like you are here? Or is it just women who are expected to be nuanced and stick purely to the individual cases and never generalise?

Maybe have a read up about Darius Guppy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2013/mar/24/boris-johnson-accused-nasty-video

So to paraphrase, women should stop talking about shit things men have done to them, because it makes men sad and feel like those women hate them.

And they might then become misogynists and that would be womens fault?

You do realise your logic is incel logic don't you? Women deserve abuse because they won't give men what they want?

I don’t think I directly addressed your point here.

I should have said: it’s fine - good, in fact - to complain and address specific things that need changing. But if the vent is just a catch-all dump on all men, then in my view it becomes counterproductive.

My point is that EVERYBODY should stop hating on other categories of people. Women are not immune.

Women have been badly treated over history but I don’t agree that it’s been so bad that they are now exempt from all forms of civilised behaviour.

And yes, I agree that there are similarities between women who hate men and incel men who hate women, even though there are differences in degree. Both think that because they have been hurt in the past by members of the other group, they are entitled to hate the whole group.

Well to be fair, as a group we women do still subscribe to SOME forms of civilised behaviour. Women (even nasty misandrist women like us on here) manage to restrain ourselves from almost all raping, murdering, domestic violence, street harassment, and gang violence. With a great effort of will, we avoid sexually harassing our juniors at work. Somehow, we manage not to send famous men anonymous rape and death threats via social media. I mean it's tough to retain this veneer of civility while our rampant man-hatred seethes within, but we do our best you know. But I appreciate that in the face of making some (statistics-based) generalisations about males as a group, it doesn't count for much.

Apologies for the sarcasm, which I know demands this important discussion. But your false equivalence, your double standards, and your blatant bias and whataboutery,make it completely impossible to take you seriously.

But noone on here has said they hate men. You have said women complaining about men raping and murdering them is "hate". That's not true at all.

And yes, I agree that there are similarities between women who hate men and incel men who hate women, even though there are differences in degree

Now you are equating women complaining about being raped and murdered with men complaining about not getting the sex they feel entitled to. And implying feminists and incels respond to the "hate" in the same way.

Ridiculous.

Thank you. Much more mature analysis than mine, but I'm done I swear. It's madness.

Just posters calling women stupid & niave for saying they aren't scared of their Husbands.

Anyway, this thread is nearly full.