To think it is actually mostly men?

[Nolpp]

Maybe I didn’t get the memo in the past but in the last year or so I’ve been so bitterly disappointed by make behaviour. I look back and wonder if it was always this way but I’m only just noticing. I think part of it is I recently became a single parent and so I’ve had more dealings with men than I would usually, as I’ve had to speak to insurance companies, take car for MOT etc. Obviously I did some of these things before and I know women also work in these places but overall I am having more interaction with men.

Examples…

Driving. Whenever a car is right up behind me it is ALWAYS a man driving. I drive at the speed limit, not under, so presumably they think speed limits don’t apply to them.

I recently donated to a sponsorship for cancer research, an old school friend, quite literally not spoken in over two decades. He then messaged me to thank me for the donation and followed it up with a question about sex and positions he can do after his surgery. Why would anyone think that’s ok?

A colleague, well respected in his industry, tells me when drunk on a night out that he wishes all women conformed to the way of the 50s and stayed at home. He wasn’t joking.

In Sainsbury’s a week ago, a man grabbed my arse in a queue, I was shocked and stepped to one side, didn’t know what to do and said get the fuck away from me. I was next up for the till and the man behind the till said he does it to everyone !!! What the actual fuck? He did follow up to say they had tried to ban him from the shop. I cried in the car afterwards, it was awful.

Waiting for the baby changing unit in Mc Donnalds. A man eventually emerges, mutters sorry but he couldn’t wait, and looked sheepish. He wasn’t unwell, he was downing a Mc flurry when I came out.

Around 7 years ago I used to date someone who had recently got a job as a Judge in the family courts. He was very young to have got this job and in part it was to do with his father being a judge in the same court. Anyway one day we were talking about how money is worked out in a divorce and he said ‘it’s disgusting, women expect to be paid out after staying at home doing nothing with kids for fifteen years, so rather than getting a job of their own they steal the x husband’s pension.’ I am ashamed to say I laughed and agreed with him. I had a good job with no interest in giving it up so I felt I was compatible with this man who I now see was a bit of a monster.

I honestly feel like men make up the bulk of shit behaviour. It probably sounds dramatic but I actually feel sad about it, genuinely sad. And embarrassed that it’s taken me until this late in life to see it.

Yes, I know it’s not all men.

Rant over.

I'm not the type to get wound up about stuff posted by strangers on the internet. This guy was in my face being threatening because I refused to have a concrete truck moved mid pour to allow him to get his car out, which he'd cheekily plonked in the clearly marked loading bay - the hauliers charge tenner a minute waiting time so probs would've cost me £50-80 as they need to hose off the chutes etc before moving truck onto the road. And I wasn't going to let my guys block a city centre street for longer than necessary just because of his nobbish parking.

I'm actually now laughing remembering it. He threatened to call the office number on the side of the wagon and I said to make sure he told me first so I could grab my phone out the car. 😂

I've probably committed a 'hate crime'. 😂😂😂

Most men are not violent offenders, most men are not rapists, most men are not murderers and most men do have something to do with their children.

Do you see how this is not at all the same as what that post says?

Well there's a response which tells me you don't live up to your username.

I apologise for dashing off an aggressive-sounding reply and belittling your experience. That is the opposite of what I wanted to do and has totally undermined my point.

My original reply wasn’t particularly aimed at you. It more arose out of frustration at the sheer quantity of women who had decided there was no good in men.

I do believe that there are similarities between women who say “all men are bad” and incels who say “all women are bad”. However, I also totally agree that your situation and theirs are in no way identical.

I also passionately believe that letting go of resentment, especially towards people who personally have done us no wrong, is literally the secret of world peace, if every individual could manage it. (It’s extremely difficult, a lot of people out there have suffered a lot more than I have, so I don’t hold out much hope.) But me getting involved in the slanging match isn’t going to persuade anyone of anything!

How so?

I'm not sure if that was aimed at me but I'll assume it was.
I know it's not the same, that was kind of the point. Yes men are more likely than women to commit those offences but it is still a very small portion of men that do.
It is far more important to look at that portion of society and work out why they offend and what we can do to reduce it and protect women (and men) from them. Let's not forget that men are more likely to be the victim of physical assault than women, so these 'bad men"' are a problem and feared by all of society not just women, so it is in everyone's interests to combat it, and man hating in general doesn't help, it just worsens the problem, it divides society.

Yes men are more likely than women to commit those offences but it is still a very small portion of men that do.

You've answered your own question. Nothing written by the poster you responded to was inaccurate. Most violent and sexual crime IS commited by men but for some reason you thought we needed to be told "not all men".

Please understand I do not give a fuck if it is 10 men, they are doing huge amounts of harm.

2 - 3 women a week murdered BY MEN
An estimated 400,000 rapes a year, committed BY MEN.
88% of rape victims are women, 12% are men and yet men are more concerned about being falsely accused of rape.
Approx 75,000 rape cases reported, annually, to the police, less than 2000 even make it to court and and even smaller number of prosecutions result in conviction.

Yes I know there was nothing incorrect in that post 🙄 it was to show how a slight change of wording can show a different story, that was the whole point. I give up.

Yes I know there was nothing incorrect in that post 🙄 it was to show how a slight change of wording can show a different story, that was the whole point. I give up.

There was nothing for you to prove! That 'whole point' had already been made.

As you are a datanerd please provide the data showing it is a "small proportion" of men.
Research shows that 30% of men have a criminal record by age 40.

Last year, 548,000 men were arrested compared to 96,000 women. Most of the arrests were for violence (298,000)

These are statistics relating to recorded crime and convictions, we know reporting and recording rates are lower than actual rates. Especially in relation to sex offending. Surveys have shown that around a third of men have issues understanding consent (believing things like, if you buy someone dinner they are consenting to sex).

I think its a significant minority of men that do these things, not a small minority. Even of its 5%, that means 1 in 20 men. Enough for me to not trust any man offering to walk me home, for example.

Its really irritating that threads like this focus on the Poor Misunderstood Men, "not my Nigel", rather than discussing what can be done about the epidemic of male criminality affecting society. Particularly misogynistic and sex offending.

Sorry what? 30% of all men have a criminal record by age 40? Are you sure about that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44207104.amp

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=amp.theguardian.com/money/2002/apr/14/workandcareers.observercashsection&ved=2ahUKEwi7h4Po_dGBAxVJUUEAHXVsBJsQFnoECCgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Pxs5445c7mpeTiSHWTukO

Ok it is a worrying stat, but the female figure is also very high at a glance on Google. So I'm assuming this includes all crime including speeding, not paying license fees etc.

Read the links data. It does not include all crime, so it doesn't include anything "spent" or statutory offences like speeding.

The comparable female figure is 9%

https://unlock.org.uk/policy-issues/key-facts/

In 2021, 79% of people dealt with by the criminal justice system were men.

Of the women, a third of them are convicted for not paying their TV license
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-fee-women-convictions-b1763192.html

76,000 men are in prison, compared to 3,200 women.

Anyway, I'm waiting for your figures on the "small portion" of men.

"A different story" WTAF.

Your priority seems to be NAMALT rather than male violence. You'd think that with men being more likely to be victims of violent crime* they'd want to do something about it but no they'd prefer to derail discussions women are having about male violence. FFS

Perhaps if men could get on board rather than obsessing about protecting their collective reputation we might make progress.

*I've always wondered about how many women are violently assaulted by a partner and never report it so I'm not totally convinced by the accuracy of that statement.

I think its important to realise that when people (like me) say it's not all men, it's not because I'm trying to minimise the problem, quite the opposite. It is a huge problem in society. What is causing it? Probably a combination of many things, biological, cultural, social. Let's not forget that a lot of this crime (assault, violence) will be happening in areas where crime is just the norm and is rife, and will be gang on gang violence. That isn't a man issue, thats a society issue as it is location specific.

My issue is the man hating rhetoric, its actually more harmful. 50% of the country is male, so tarring them all with the same brush just creates more division and more anger, it actually feeds the issue as rather than drawing a line between criminals and law abiding citizens and trying to improve that section of society, it draws a line between men and women and makes one detest the other (like seen on this thread). Imagine growing up now as a law abiding, kind, nice, harmless boy and being relentlessly told to apologise for behaviour that has nothing to do with you. Most men detest violent and sexual crime too! Most men have sisters, wives, mothers, friends that are women.

You are making out like you are the only one saying it - NO ONE HAS SAID IT'S ALL MEN. NO ONE IS 'TARRING ALL MEN WITH THE SAME BRUSH'.

It's TOO MANY MEN.

Is that clear enough for you?

This is full of ridiculous assumptions. Men don't want to do anything about violent assault?
Jesus Christ. Tell that to my son's friend who was violently assaulted on a night out, tell that to my nephew who was punched in the nose in a bar and had his nose permanently disfigured.
Tell that to victims of gang culture where there is no escape in crime ridden areas. I actually think it's very odd and bizarre that you seem to think most men want to live amongst criminal activity and aren't affected by it.
If you think men are collectively trying to defend their reputation, it's probably because you are relentlessly attacking them as a group like you are here, which is exactly why this anti male rhetoric is harmful.

My issue is the man hating rhetoric....

Oh GTF. Pointing out how violent the male sex seems to be is a statement of fact not fucking prejudice. I know we live in a post truth/reality world but I won't buy into the bullshit belief that statements of fact are harmful and women pointing out that men are more violent creates more anger, seriously that's blokes, and weirdly not only the violent ones, just looking for excuses.

1st rule of misogyny:
Women are responsible for what men do.

I think its important to realise that when people (like me) say it's not all men, it's not because I'm trying to minimise the problem, quite the opposite. It is a huge problem in society. What is causing it? Probably a combination of many things, biological, cultural, social. Let's not forget that a lot of this crime (assault, violence) will be happening in areas where crime is just the norm and is rife, and will be gang on gang violence. That isn't a man issue, thats a society issue as it is location specific.

We can't address the problem when we have to ignore the overwhelming common factor - the offenders are men. We can't even begin to discuss and address it as a society because men have fragile egos and have to shut down the conversation. As you are doing here.

How do you begin to address gang crime in an area, when as soon as you propose a targeted intervention at men/boys it's shot down as "misandrist" and not all men?
How do you address the poor understanding and application of consent, when so much media discourse is about "false allegations" and "innocent until proven guilty"?

Despite the posters on here saying it's not you or your Nigels, you are contributing to the problem by failing to acknowledge 1) its overwhelmingly men that do these things 2) it's enough men to cause a societal problem and 3) to tackle that problem will require all men change their behaviour.

This is full of ridiculous assumptions. Men don't want to do anything about violent assault?

Few men seem to want to do anything to help other men at all, particularly when the alternative is blaming women.

Take a look at the Ava Evans/Laurence Fox situation. She said she thought a minister for mental health would be more useful than a minister for men and rather than make his case, Laurence Fox decided to discuss her attractiveness and speculate about whether any man would want to have sex with her. It was intended to humiliate because we live in a society where a women's value is still determined by her fuckability. It's patriarchy but, to men like Fox, suggesting that such a thing exists is "man hating". And here you are cheerleading for that very attitude.

What has Fox accomplished to help men with mental health problems? NOTHING, even when he had a platform and could have done something useful.

Ok, maybe an example will help for the hard of thinking.

You're sitting in your car minding your own business and a man in another car bumps into you and then whizzes off without stopping.

Another man over the road sees this and walks over. Most likely about to offer himself as a witness/state he recorded the number plate.

Except you launch into a long tirade about men and start berating him. "You bloody men. Such bad drivers! Responsible for 99% of hit and runs" etc etc.

Does this innocent bystander still want to help or has he actually now decided it's not his circus, not his monkeys? 🤔