To think it is actually mostly men?

[Nolpp]

Maybe I didn’t get the memo in the past but in the last year or so I’ve been so bitterly disappointed by make behaviour. I look back and wonder if it was always this way but I’m only just noticing. I think part of it is I recently became a single parent and so I’ve had more dealings with men than I would usually, as I’ve had to speak to insurance companies, take car for MOT etc. Obviously I did some of these things before and I know women also work in these places but overall I am having more interaction with men.

Examples…

Driving. Whenever a car is right up behind me it is ALWAYS a man driving. I drive at the speed limit, not under, so presumably they think speed limits don’t apply to them.

I recently donated to a sponsorship for cancer research, an old school friend, quite literally not spoken in over two decades. He then messaged me to thank me for the donation and followed it up with a question about sex and positions he can do after his surgery. Why would anyone think that’s ok?

A colleague, well respected in his industry, tells me when drunk on a night out that he wishes all women conformed to the way of the 50s and stayed at home. He wasn’t joking.

In Sainsbury’s a week ago, a man grabbed my arse in a queue, I was shocked and stepped to one side, didn’t know what to do and said get the fuck away from me. I was next up for the till and the man behind the till said he does it to everyone !!! What the actual fuck? He did follow up to say they had tried to ban him from the shop. I cried in the car afterwards, it was awful.

Waiting for the baby changing unit in Mc Donnalds. A man eventually emerges, mutters sorry but he couldn’t wait, and looked sheepish. He wasn’t unwell, he was downing a Mc flurry when I came out.

Around 7 years ago I used to date someone who had recently got a job as a Judge in the family courts. He was very young to have got this job and in part it was to do with his father being a judge in the same court. Anyway one day we were talking about how money is worked out in a divorce and he said ‘it’s disgusting, women expect to be paid out after staying at home doing nothing with kids for fifteen years, so rather than getting a job of their own they steal the x husband’s pension.’ I am ashamed to say I laughed and agreed with him. I had a good job with no interest in giving it up so I felt I was compatible with this man who I now see was a bit of a monster.

I honestly feel like men make up the bulk of shit behaviour. It probably sounds dramatic but I actually feel sad about it, genuinely sad. And embarrassed that it’s taken me until this late in life to see it.

Yes, I know it’s not all men.

Rant over.

I also understand you work in the police.

You also get angry with people and call people stupid.

Have I called you stupid? It's naive to focus on the fact that because your husband and son are lovely (and you'd hope that they were), we shouldn't be wary of males as a demographic, it takes attention off the fact that males commit the most violence and sexual offences.

It's not the same as one poster kept trying to say, that we are saying all males on the planet commit horrendous crimes. It's not just heinous crimes, it's low level cat calling, sexiest comments etc. And that's just what gets reported.

In my line of work I see males, many many many more males than women commit crime and certain types of crime. Towards women and other males. If you heard of a paedophile gang being caught, I'd bet my house on the fact that that it would be all, or the majority of, males.

There's much more to it but I'm guessing I'm going to get the 'but all the guys I know are great!' stock response.

It's anger inducing yeah when people don't read posts properly and come back with insults.

Well try explaining things properly instead of just calling people naive as your first comment back to them. I don't know if it's because you work in the police and you think it's OK to belittle people.

Well try explaining things properly instead of just calling people naive as your first comment back to them. I don't know if it's because you work in the police and you think it's OK to belittle people.

Many posters before me had but you just kept wading in not reading the room with your tone deaf responses.

I'm not even going to entertain your last comment. Which is pretty stupid.

@FOJN when it comes to men challenging men in the workplace. One word, hierarchy. It exists even within the workplace and affects what people will do, even when it's just men present.

It's probably because some of the posters were being sensible and others were just saying things that were just ridiculous.

I mean just the comments about firefighters. I'm not naive or stupid enough to know there are bad ones (same as the police) but fuck me.

Read a report in the Times about a woman who experienced serious domestic abuse by her husband using surveillance. At the outset and ongoing into the relationship she still managed to keep her job, despite his constant accusations that she was "cheating on him" her only way to escape was to cut the power to their home leave her phone and run.
The misogny was there in the comme ta for all to see.

1. She hadn't left as she liked to benefit from the imcome/financial status. (Despite having her own f.t well paid job.)
2. If it was so bad why did she stay for so long.
3. That (this commentator) used tech to monitor his wife!! Wtf!

4 the perpetrator must have had "a reason" to belive she was cheating!

Another poster pointed to the law of coercive control and how such behaviour of perpetrators can damage confidence so people feel unable to lea e. Stating that the other responses where victim blaming. Many responded saying the law (coercive control) was basicaĺly "wrong" a sense that all these laws seem to penalise men.

I work in the area of domestic abuse (and other crime) whilst not entirely surprising it was something to read how much still needs to change.

Also get the occasional male rape victim who thinks being raped "is worse for men" 😩

Possibly but of the two people who told me this one was a CEO and the other was head of department. I think they fear being outed as not a mans man because obviously real men objectify women and talk about them in derogatory ways!

Did they offer any kind of justification for not doing so? When sharing examples of work incidents that I found uncomfortable, I've been asked why I didn't speak. I wasn't very comfortable with being asked, but it was a perfectly reasonable question.

I deteste that phrase "a man's man" among others, based on my understanding of it anyway. I've seen it written on some women's dating profiles. Is there a good interpretation?

@PaulaZackMayo what would it take for you to believe that there is a culture of misogyny in the fire service? Several posters have linked to the government watch dog's report saying exactly that here . I have told you that my partner was bullied out of a 2 decade long career in the service along with several of her female colleagues and another poster has given you her experiences of being a volunteer firefighter. What sort of evidence would convince you? would you need it to be you or your daughter or someone you knew? Im genuinely interested.

One did, he said it was so prevalent he would spend his entire working life challenging his misogynist colleagues. Essentially he saw it as fighting a losing battle.

@rolypolyholymoly not all Firemen are corrupt. I have a friend who's a Fireman. When my Brother was killed in an accident the Firemen who tried to save him came to his funeral and were very emotional.

@PaulaZackMayo again - we know NAFFALT. but surely you must be able to acknowledge that misogeny is a problem in the fire service- when the ACTUAL fire service agree that it is a problem? and that this is agreed at watchdog and govt level?

I didn't say it wasn't.

well you sort of did. you said

I mean just the comments about firefighters. I'm not naive or stupid enough to know there are bad ones (same as the police) but fuck me.

you indicated that it is just a couple of bad apple situations, rather than an institutional culture of bullying and misogyny against women that ruins lives and careers.

Men and their behaviour are known and evidenced on a pretty much undeniable level to harm women in the fire service.

and also Im still not sure how a firefighter coming to your brother's funeral (im sorry for your loss) doesn't mean he is also capable of poor behaviour towards women at work.

You and your partner have obviously had a really bad time because of certain men. Nothing will ever change that. I've some really good experiences, & relationships. Even though I'm not niave or sucking up to them.

I will admit that there are men letting the rest of them down.

It's a shame that certain Firemen have let their colleagues down. Some are heroes. I know one them who had to cut my Brother out of the car and it upset him a lot. He's a family man who I know would never bully a woman.

Condolences @PaulaZackMayo. What happened to your brother sounds incredibly traumatising and gives an insight into where you are coming from. I suggest that this thread isn’t for you right now because the things we want to discuss on here will only be triggering for you.

I agree.

That's very interesting. The authors speculate about how this peaceful lifestyle was preserved. One speculation is that where you have few males they don't need to compete against each other. If that is the case then this will only be temporary because the normal sex ratio will eventually be attained.

Curiously they don't speculate that this particular environment may be relatively free of predators. Africa isn't what it used to be, often an environment will have been modified by humans.

I think that if you go through life expecting to never experience any negativity or encounter any arseholes you're setting yourself up for failure. Especially if you allow yourself to get bent out of shape about it.

We live in a society obsessed with microggressions/privilege/toxicity/wokeness etc and we've seemingly created a generation who actually believe that identifying 'wrong' and 'right' and lecturing everyone on it means it can actually be policed. But of course this isn't possible and they become mortally offended when they realise this.

And people will always pick on the obvious traits which will offend people because that's human nature. I don't have any issue with fat people yet I called a guy a 'fat prick' the other day because he was being incredibly obnoxious and I wanted to piss him off. It worked! It's probably why people say 'cheer up, love' when they encounter a mardy woman. They know it'll piss them off and boy does it ever.

That tells me and everyone else here exactly what kind of person you really are, thanks. I was wary of you already, and now I know you're not worth talking to because I have no wish to be abused the moment you get upset

Most rapists are men..most murderers are men..most domestic violence offences are caused by men..mostly men have nothing to do with their children..do I need to go on!