To expect DD16 to be kinder

[IsItUs]

DD16 asked me to go with her to local supermarket as she wanted various things - conditioner, ice tea, etc.
Walked there and, as usual, I ended up carrying most of it back although DD reluctantly carried a few of her bits.
Somehow on the walk back along a main road I fell on the uneven pavement landing face down. I laid there quite winded, to hear DD shriek "why did you fall over". Rolled onto my side slowly and a man had jumped out of his car and helped me up. As I got to my feet, DD is holding out my (heavy'ish) bags for me which I took.
Thanked the man and headed off with DD again, turning into an alley to home after a few metres where I burst into tears. Not badly hurt - knees and hands cut and bruised, and shoulder jarred, but I think I was shocked and embarrassed. DD says in a hostile tone "what are you crying for!?" I told her to just leave me alone and she shouted "you're fucking mental" and stormed off home without me.
Not a word to me since. I made myself a cup of tea but I just feel really tearful. It's the latest in a line of cold hurtful behaviour and I do so much for her. I think this has made me realise how cold to me she is.
Am I unreasonable to expect a little concern from a 16 yr old. That she might have carried my 2 bags, made me a cup of tea or asked if I was ok? Or is this normal for a 16 yr old?
I'm sorry this sounds trivial, I don't know why I'm so upset.

Sounds like you've handled it very well, OP. Too bad about her hysterics - none of us enjoy being pulled up on things, but sometimes it has to be done

I especially liked that you committed to "pointing out each time she's rude or inconsiderate"; consistency is the key here and it's good that both you and DH are on the same page

Doubtless it'll be uncomfortable for a while - you might even get accusations of "torturing her" - but it'll be worth it in order to turn things round

Good luck

Don’t try and keep the positive changes up.

Keep them up.

It’s as though this is the first time you he ever told her that her behaviour is so appalling and, on a basic human level, quite cruel

Your DH seems to be this kind of back ground figure who floats around just taking phone calls from his daughter.

Not that I would have ever ever behaved like this to my mother (or even ever remotely wanted to behave like this to my mother), had I done so - my father would have been fighting my mother’s corner re how unacceptable and appalling this was. The first time. And there wouldn’t have been a next time

No, DH isn't a background figure. He'll hear her out but he was very clear and cross with her, and she knew it. He told her that how she behaved was nowhere near acceptable. He's quite chilled naturally but he does get cross when needed and it has impact.
We have had talks with her before and it improves for a while then slides back to how it was. That's what I'm determined won't happen this time.
She's quiet today BUT I drop her and DS off in mornings (school and college v close together) and there was a lady dancing at the side of the road while I was in traffic - I don't know why. Proper dancing with arms and legs involved. I looked at her and DD snapped "why are you staring at her!" and I sharply told her she had no right to tell me who I could look at. She didn't say another word rest of the journey. Not the best start but it shut her up.

That’s the way to handle it.

I remember the first time DD finally checked herself from one of these snappy moments. She didn’t apologise but her eyes did that derogatory rolling thing they do then she realised what she had done and that I was doing her a massive favour and she quickly changed the subject to something nice and kind. It will pass.

OP

I think it's time to be straight with her.
i know that with children it's the behaviour, not the child etc. ...
But by now it's gone beyond that.

Next time you need to have a conversation, you need to tell her that.
That initially she was just behaving nastily. But it that's her constant behaviour, then it is her, and it's personality that is so.

Keep calling out her behavior “don’t speak that way to me” “put your things away” “make your own arrangements to get there and back” “ this is the way grownups behave” etc…etc… Raise the bar for her.

a 16 year old that has been allowed to treat her parents not just with disdain but actually cruelty.

To be rude (even to come in and first words “what’s for dinner?” wouldn’t wash in my house).

To be bossy with her brother and generally very demanding

and the Op thinks a talk (what makes this talk any different to the other “talks” you say you have given her) is going to make any sort of change?

This is the product of 16 years of a family tiptoeing around her. A “chilled” limp lettuce of a father, a younger brother bossed around, a mother who ”as usual” Carrie’s all the shopping because her daughter refuses to”.

And now… at 16, she’s rude, demanding, refuses to help and… cruel.

It will take a heck of a lot more than a talk. If she was 6, yes. 16? I honestly think some family therapy. Otherwise she will be the same at 26.

She is trying to get back to the status quo asap.

I’d be telling her one more comment like that and she can make her own way to college.

I agree with Cherry above - no more car rides if she is like that - I can see you want to have a good relationship with her but you won't achieve that by caving in and being her servant all the time

Come on! I would NEVER have treated my mother like that.
She is not a "little girl" she is a young woman.

This. She needs to know that her behaviour is unacceptable and hurtful.

And has consequences.

No, that is not normal behaviour from your DD. Does she lack compassion with other people - Family/Friends, or is it just reserved for you?
why do you accept that from her? I’d be taking her ice tea and conditioner to a food bank and explain that her lack of respect and kindness is the reason. Why treat her and behave like a slave, carrying her bags!

I can see how it happens when your daughter's being lovely - you are kind to her then and everything is great, even if you do a bit too much for her.

But your daughter only lacks empathy for you - not in school, not with her friends or with her friends' parents - that's really awful (though typical, too).

She really needs to be shocked into seeing how she's behaving and it wouldn't do any harm if you said something sharp to her when her friends were there, too, if she isn't nice to you.

Awful behaviour, really callous. I never carry bags my dc carried them as soon as they were big enough to carry them for me. It's probably old fashioned but I was expected to carry for dm and I expected the same from dc. They are adults now and automatically carry bags, unload the car, reach things from the high shelves when they are here visiting. Added to which she showed no care or concern and was abusive when you were upset would have me raging.
I would wait until you are feeling calmer and then have a serious chat. I would expect an apology and an explanation for her behaviour and if these weren't to my satisfaction then I would be withdrawing my services and all the kindnesses from somebody who obviously cares so little for me.

Ive got 4 teens roughly the same age and I fell and really hurt my ankle recently. They all came running and called their dad. Sorry this is not normal.

@IsItUs How have things been the last couple of days?

I have 2 teen DDs, 14 and 16 and I do lots for them in terms of lifts etc., like you do. I would be so hurt in your shoes, I really hope she is reflecting on her behaviour and makes some serious adjustments to her attitude. I think I would be pulling back on how much I go out of my way for her for now, until she shows some improvement in her empathy for you.

In Germany all 16 year olds are Kinder

This post was on my mind all evening.

I certainly understand you paying for her contacts and her phone these are basically necessities. But you should not be paying for chores. All people need to learn how to clean up after themselves. She also needs to be preparing meals at least one day a week. That means the planning as well.

If I don't pay for chores then I just give pocket money for doing nothing? She does tidy up after herself and her room is immaculate - she's not paid for that. We decided instead of just giving pocket money that it would be earned. I guess that's another debate.

So far so good on the behaviour. She got the train to and from college today off her own bat and offered to cook dinner today. She was snappy yesterday and got pulled up straightaway by both me and DH. She's being pleasant and chatty.
It's a work in progress. I'm not thinking she's seen the light. No doubt she'll slip back but I won't and she'll be pulled up every time.

She's had a few years of being able to get away with her treatment of you but as long as you continue to stick with pulling her up as soon as she's overstepped then this sounds like a turning point in your relationship.

Good luck OP, you've got this

Well—keep at it! It will pay off, i hope, and even if she is faking it life at home will be more pleasant while she fakes being kind.

I have thought so much about your daughter since you first posted. I hope she can turn things around and realize how loving people should act.

All the best

Out of interest - when did the rudeness and disrespect begin?

have you asked her why she’s gone from fantastic at school to suddenly messing around (at 16??!) and missing detentions.