To think having a marriage and kids and a FT job is just too hard

[JimRoyle]

I’m at breaking point. Argued with DH all evening over something pathetic. Just feel at all times like I’m exhausted, he’s exhausted, working 50hr weeks, never have time for each other. Snap at each other, life is just monotonous jobs, housework, being shattered. Feel like a worthless person who just exists to work and be a mother. I don’t bring anything to the world.

I can’t cope with it all anymore. I just want my relationship back.

I can't comment too much about ways to make a marriage work (I divorced my XH!!), but from seeing friends and family members who are in successful marriages/partnerships, have kids and both work FT, there seems to be a trend...

-good communication.
-sharing of the responsibilities equally (parenting, mental load, house stuff etc). That could include outsourcing things, so some have a cleaner come in weekly.
-they also seem to try and make sure that they make time for each other to do date nights (either at home or actually going out) or things together, and give each other the time to do their own thing (meeting friends, hobbies etc).

^the sort of things I wished that my ex would do with me!!

My DB and SIL both work FT (in "big jobs"), but they've compressed their hours in to four day weeks (I know not probably possible with teaching!). They take on equal responsibilities around the house and with their kids. SIL gets time to do her hobbies/see her friends, and vice versa. They've got a cleaner coming once a week to sort housework. The way they do things really works well for them.

You've got an insanely hard job (I'm a nurse working FT but I wouldn't be able to do your job so you have my deepest respect), and I promise you that you do so much more than you realise. Please don't feel like you don't bring anything to the world. Your DC are young and from experience, parenting young kids is bloody brutal and like you're on a treadmill the whole time!! Things do get better as they get older (new set of things to worry about but that's another story).

Is there a chance that you can get in a cleaner once a week, or once a fortnight? At least then that's the housework taken care off. I know everyone says it, but batch cooking or the Gousto/Hello Fresh boxes might help with sorting meals. I batch cook every so often and get my groceries delivered (saves me a lot of bother). I've got a robovac that does the floors for me each night, so at least they don't look too hideous. And my DC are a bit older now (10 and 16) so I draft them in to give me hand around the house. What would make things easier for you guys as a family?

Are you getting enough sleep? I imagine that after you finish at work, you have all the usual routines of sorting kids, supper etc, and then marking, lesson prepping etc. It must be non stop. I hope you managed to get a good sleep last night. Really hope that you and your DH can have a talk about how to sort things moving forward. x

A colleague told me life expectancy for women is declining. She reckons this is because that’s the generation when started women working full time out of the home whilst still doing all/ most of the wifely/ motherly duties and it’s just worn them out.

I’ve not fact checked this anecdote!

A colleague told me life expectancy for women is declining.

She's wrong. It's currently 84 in the UK.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/mortality-insights-bulletin-from-gad-july-2022/mortality-insights-bulletin-july-2022#:~:text=The%20life%20expectancy%20of%20a,the%20birth%20of%20the%20Queen.

However, it will vary massively based on socio-economic & health factors.

lots of them seem to manage an affair on top of that too! Which tells you everything you need to know about whose picking up most of the domestic load and how much that is acknowledged and appreciated by their other half.

Outsourcing work is almost as much work as doing it yourself.

*birker
Personally I find being a single mum working full time even more exhausting....

....guess it depends on whether your partner pulls his weight or adds to the load

Think you’ve misunderstood my point. Maintaining a happy marriage with children and FT job is maybe a better way to put it*

Apologies, I had misunderstood your post. I thought you were struggling with the overall load and I was genuinely meaning if he made it harder you might be better off without him

Really appreciating all of the advice. Lots to consider.

I’m in a fixed term FT role, no option to reduce hours currently. DH just started so similar but he’s currently using public transport to get to work which is what takes the time. I think we will look into a second car as this will halve his travelling time and can mean he can do drop offs/pick ups and it’s not all on me. At the moment I have to drop what I’m doing at 4.45 to go for DC and then often pick my work back up after DC go to bed.

My H truly does his fair share, he’s actually great. The qualm I have is his commitment to his football team. It takes up lots of our weekend time and some midweek evenings which puts more pressure on me.

However I am reluctant to raise this because it’s his ‘thing’ - he doesn’t take time away from us for anything else and I don’t want him to start to feel like I do, like I don’t have anything about me in terms of hobbies etc.

He is supportive and encourages me to go out midweek, go to the gym if I want to etc but I so often just feel too tired. I need to just go once a week and I’m sure it’ll help!

Im going to look into a cleaner, whether we could afford a second car etc.

We’ve actually moved to be nearer family But since we’ve been back they’ve either been on holiday or poorly. So maybe we’ll start to feel the pressure lift soon as they are really keen to help. I know we are very lucky there. ❤️

I adore my husband and he is a good man. We used to have so much fun together, I’m really mourning that.

But do you get the same amount of time to have a "thing". Cos if you don't, then it's not fair.

It sucks but when you're an adult with kids, especially multiple, your responsibilities multiply, but that means for both of you. He can't neglect his responsibilities to have a thing while you have to cover for him.

If you both get equal time, then sure, call me out. If not, then a car isn't going to fix all of your issues. It's just going to create more time for you to work.

Op, so many couples with young children separate and it’s not surprising! It is hard juggling everything.

dh and I now married 20 years and had to cope with very challenging years due to DS1 having special needs (still are but less so). My tips:

• when one of you gets upset, angry and starts the typical fighting with words match, very often this is just tiredness. Difficult to engage brain and end up hurting each other emotionally. Ignore, tell him you’ll talk when you are both calmer.

• time out is important. DH woukd go to do his sport hobby on Sunday mornings for 3 hours. Not ideal but worthed as it gave him time to unwind and be a happier person. I also get time out and we both are happy for each other when we have a nice time

• shorter commute or wfh a couple of days, massively helpful if he can do this.

• decide what are your priorities. For me, cooking healthy meals for the family is non negotiable, but having the house spotless is not!

Hi, OP.

Times like this in a marriage can be really trying. It's hard to offer any specific advice as I don't know your situation. There are lots of things to think about in all this which will add way more stress than needed. Not gloating, but DH and our wee family have been in an amazing place since our youngest started school last year. I work remotely and he has early starts which means he gets home at a decent time. So, my questions:

• if you're in education do you fancy a change to remote working? I know this isn't an immediate fix. DM if you do, we have some great jobs at work in education development
• his football is a tricky one as, for his MH, a hobby is great for men- are there any hobbies you want to take up? The positive MH boost for you will be fab.
• are you the family who needs 2 x International holidays a year, do loads of extra clubs with kids, plan costly experiences most weekends? Your lifestyle could be a reflection of all the other things you have/want - absolutely not a criticism, our money is so tight we hardly do anything sadly but will be downsizing soon - but you need to weigh up just how much your household needs to be kept sane and happy and measure it against hours working and time trying to maintain house/sanity/relationships.

Food for thought there. The best way to keep a happy marriage and family is to keep it simple, always. The harder we try to desperately claw things together, the more frantic and busy we seem to be in pursuit of being happy instead of just being happy. IYSWIM

Everyone is different though, this is just what I might say to a friend if they were in your shoes so do take it with a pinch of salt.Good luck!

Those years are now over but I think I got through it fine with a happy marriage because of a few factors. One is nothing to do with what you or your partner are like as people it’s having enough money, cleaner, gardener, take aways when you want them, lovely holidays every year, it takes some pressure off.

Communication is the big one and being able to discuss issues before they get a lot worse. If you have partners that refuse to engage and talk about issues it’s over before it’s started. People also need to also talk about stuff apart from children and domestic stuff. The inability to do this means everyone just becomes subsumed in to domestic drudgery.

Then there are innate personality traits that are down to the individuals personality and that is the ability to have a laugh and also efficiency levels. I remember having no babysitters one New Years Eve so DH and I raced the kids remote controlled cars round a track we made.

Then efficiency levels I have seen how people procrastinate or just be poor or want to please others with decision making. This leaks in to all aspects of home and work. Learning to say no is a big help. I have always done just that and it may make some people irritated but I see it on MN all the time, all the CF that take advantage. It’s a drain on your mental and practical resources which means it’s also inadvertently a drain on your marriage.

I’ve just seen your recent post OP. Re his football, I think weekday evenings AND weekend seems a little too much.

he also needs to understand that although he is entitled to having his own thing, family comes first and you need support. Won’t be forever, kids will grow!

Sorry if I’ve missed it but how old are your children OP?

My DD is a primary school teacher, so I know what you're up against. The one thing that struck me, is that in her (previous) school they don't save lessons to use year after year. As a previous trainer myself, I found this ridiculous. You ought to be able to pull lessons from a central library, and eliminate all Prep time (save for printing of practicals etc). Is this something you could do?

On the working FT with kids, yes, it's relentless. My children are adults now, and left home circa 8 years ago. Looking back, if I had my time over again, I would outsource as much as possible. I never had a cleaner, or a gardener - I really should have! It would have saved hours of time. But coming from a working class family, that would have felt a bit "stuck up" to do, even though we could have afforded it. My (then) H was lazy, and I did all housework, mental load, washing, ironing, gardening, shopping, cooking. Bloody crazy!

On the subject of ironing - my pile used to be like a tower and really used to get me down. My now DH told me that no one neds to iron, because body heat will get rid of creases. I was sceptical, but gave it a try. LIFE CHANGING. We never iron, I even sold the ironing board, lol. Try it.

It is possible to be happily married, with kids and a FT job for both men and women. It is however, harder to do. I would not go PT or divorce.

I think you and your DH need to carve out a family tradition where you hang out. For us it is a bottle of wine to share and Netflix on Saturday nights after the kids are in bed. We also have a baby sitter and one night a week I’d go do my hobby (with all my female friends) and he would go and do his hobby (with his male friends). It was just enough to keep us in touch with our identities other than mum of or dad of the kids. We both try and go to the gym or take a walk for our lunch breaks and then eat at our desks. I walk at lunch with a coworker with kids and we have a good whinge about how exhausting it all is.

In regards to fighting over silly stuff, most people do this for us we would just let it go and have a hug to apologise. When you are exhausted you both are going to snap occasionally and the key is to not take it too personally and to not over analyse it.

It’s not equal. Your husband is off one evening a week and on a weekend (how long for?) and you are not getting even an evening to go to the gym. He is happy for you to go to the gym, but how does he propose to facilitate it?
This could become a source of resentment. You would like to go to the gym to improve your health and well-being. I couldn’t go for years as I am a single parent (sorry!) but if you have another adult there seven days a week, it should be possible. Especially if that adult manages one evening and weekend time out the house whilst also doing a two hour commute.

Solidarity OP. I have 4 and a full time job. And we got through periods where we struggle to maintain 'us' and not bicker about the little things.

Some things that worked for us are a cleaner. Really lightens the load and the bickering. And a standing date night. We have a babysitter who comes once a month minimum. If we can't afford to go out other than paying her we drive to a nice spot (baring in mind we are in London 😂) and we park up, have a packed dinner and chat. No household chore distractions and no children!
We also do a standing game night where we just play a board game. We started that during lockdown out of sheer boredom. And although neither of us is particularly into board games we found we enjoyed spending time together.

He is supportive and encourages me to go out midweek, go to the gym if I want to etc but I so often just feel too tired. I need to just go once a week and I’m sure it’ll help!

My midweek hobby is doing traditional dancing with a bunch of other women. We have a grand old time together. It’s nominally a “class” but the reality is we all chip in for the studio rental and bit extra to our leader and choreographer. So perhaps look into something similar? It really helps me to have a community of female friends that I saw weekly. We even go to London and compete in dance contests a few times a year with overnight stays. I love my kids and DH to bits but it is nice to have and be more than just a mum, wife and employee.

It’s absolutely relentless. I have accepted that my house will always be untidy and I will always feel tired! However it is possible to be happy. Prioritise the important things. We try to sit together as a family at least three times a week to eat dinner together. I try and get to the gym twice a week for me time and hubby plays golf or football for some time to himself too. I’ve moved positions in my job and I am so much happier now so make sure you’re doing a job you enjoy.
It’s so hard but it’s also for such a short time. When the kids leave home I will probably miss the madness of it all!

It takes two to want to make a marriage work. What is your husband doing to show his commitment to it? I used to be married and I wanted it to work, he on the other hand was sabotaging it at every turn.
Now as a single parent I am glad I don't have to deal (except for messaging about holidays/children's needs) with him and his twisted idea of a marriage (not saying it's any easier day to day).

@JimRoyle - ignore the people berating you for your feelings. Just because others have an even tougher time doesn’t negate your experience. Frankly you are superwoman - I (only) have one child and one on the way and am a sahm with full time help and I am still struggling to maintain some sort of equilibrium. I used to work 60+ hour weeks and there is no way I could have coped with one never mind two children.

Try to carve out time just for yourself - can you afford childcare for a few hours per week so that you can do something for yourself? You need to fill your own cup first. Sending you lots of sympathy - parenting is tough!

ignore the people berating you for your feelings.

Again, no-one did this. It's not posters' fault if OP's title was inaccurate, as she later qualified.

OP has received much support of her feelings, correctly, on this thread.

Nice view but I suspect it’s more about ‘mummy drinks wine’ culture rather than being worked to death.

if we ate and drank like our mothers and grandmothers I think that would counteract this trend

but I suspect it’s more about ‘mummy drinks wine’ culture rather than being worked to death.

That's not true either.
Life expectancy is increasing. Doesn't mean that over-consumption of wine is acceptable, but it's not the case that life expectancy is being reduced by women drinking wine.

Oh OP it’s so tough. Sending massive hugs. I’m exactly the same, 4 days a week in a full on NHS role, desperately trying to cram in a MSc on the 5th day (20 hours study a week required according to the course plan hahahahaha) and two DC aged 7 and 4. And a house renovation. I cried with exhaustion and stress last night and then had a fight with my husband.

To the extent I have any answers….

• Outsource. We cannot really afford to have our cleaner twice a week but if she didn’t come then I would have a breakdown so we do. I also use school breakfast club so that when I have tidied the house after the DC go to bed each night it stays tidy until the following evening. Coming back from work to breakfast mess sent me over the edge.
• Childcare - paid and family. I don’t have much helpful family nearby but I am getting better at asking for help and accepting help. We have a uni student who does the afterschool care 4pm-7pm three nights a week and it helps enormously. Book babysitters even if just to have a walk/ pint and talk to each other. Don’t just keep it for a ‘big thing’ like a wedding or Xmas party
• Find something for you. I have a choir I go to once a week and it’s amazing for my mental health. Loads of primary school teachers there incidentally who find it amazing for forcing them to switch off. I force myself to go, even when I’m shattered and I’m always so glad I did.
• Decide on some things to cut corners on. I barely cook, when I do it’s batch curry, chilli etc. We eat a lot of salads with marinated chicken, avocado and nuts (takes 5 mins) and higgley pies, Cook ready meals etc. Soup with a sandwich. I love cooking but it’s something I have accepted is ‘one day’

It will get better. My 7 year old constantly surprises me by suddenly just DOING things I have got used to doing for him like turning the shower on, putting on his own seatbelt etc. Sounds silly but it adds up.

Wishing you much happiness x