Page 15 | To think DS 20 should get his old room back?

altawalt · 2023-09-17T13:39:44+00:00

My DS is 20 with mental health issues and is on the autistic spectrum. I've been with DP since he was 4. At the end of last year he was going to move in with his girlfriend and they found a flat but unfortunately they didn't end up moving in. DS moved in with her and her family instead. He got a full time job (was previously working part time) and things were great. His gf’s mum messaged me back in may and told me he wasn't going to work and was very quiet. We met up and he told me he was struggling. He went to the GP and was put on antidepressants and he's seemed fine since. He came home and wouldn't say why but then admitted he and his gf had an argument and he decided to come here to give them both some space. This isn't what his girlfriend is saying, she told her mum that they had an argument because she thought he was cheating and he shoved her. DS is denying this, I don't know who to believe but DP believes his girlfriend which had led to them arguing over it and has threatened to shove DS if he does it again, which I think he was wrong to say. DS and his girlfriend have made up but have agreed for him to stay here for now. DS isn't the easiest to live with he is very messy, he plays his music loud and he struggles with sleeping so doesn't sleep until the early hours and he makes a lot of noise downstairs and makes food etc etc. DP knows this as he was like this previously but now he makes a comment about it everytime DS does it. He says he's old enough to now know better and he's been spoilt by me as I've always allowed it. Whilst DS was gone he agreed that SS could have his room and since DS has been home he's slept on the sofa but has said he wants his room back. Which DP doesn't think he should be allowed. An I unreasonable in thinking that DS should get his old room back and DP is being unreasonable?

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 12:31

@Naunet No of course he should not have been physical, it’s unacceptable.

I see it as symptomatic of him not coping as ASD people can lash out whenever they are in a real mess.

If there was a pattern of violent behaviour with people actually getting hurt that would be one thing. He pushed her. It was wrong, but she is fine and they identified that living at hers was not healthy to stop the behaviour.

As it stands it was the final symptom in a long line of decline since May. And I think it’s right he admitted defeat and came home and that GF recognised he wasn’t coping either.

When I talk about needs being met, what I mean is things like

own personal space to regulate
self soothing habits/items to hand
visual schedules
rigid routine
prompts from care giver for support needs

When at home his mum probably sorted his food and washing, prompted him with hygiene and getting up/going to bed/going to work, knew how to calm him and help with regulation and a whole host of other things to help him function in a NT way.

All of which would have freed him up to be able to work. But with those extra demands on top of working and no support he will have floundered and become mentally ill. Won’t have been able to mask, I bet he feels utterly humiliated.

MargotBamborough · 18/09/2023 12:48

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 11:31

So should you @MargotBamborough

You’ve rattled on arguing this entire thread.

First you took issue with me saying the DS likely had the developmental capacity of a younger child (which I gathered from reading the mother’s descriptions). You finally shut up about that whenever his mother confirmed that he does have significant developmental delay and is more akin to a 16 year old child.

Now, you’ve become fixated upon advocating for the SS, whom you seem to think is OP’s responsibility. He has two functioning parents for that. They should be paying for him and meeting his needs. OP shouldn’t jeopardise her own children’s health and well-being in order to pick up somebody else’s child - she is not a charity.

Would you ever give your head a wobble!

Shame on you! Disgraceful! Blah blah blah

You couldn’t give two tinkers about the boy or you would have been advocating for him from the beginning.

You just like a fight and haven’t much on the calendar for today.

If the OP has been with the child's father for nearly his entire life and consented to his moving into her house four years ago then yes, she does have some responsibility towards him and shouldn't just chuck him out of the only home he has. (And if his mother says he can't live in her house then the only home he has is with his father.)

But it appears she doesn't care much about her own daughter, let alone her stepson.

The time to object to her stepson moving into an already full house was four years ago, before he moved in. She should have said to her partner "Sorry, he can't move in because my son is autistic and needs his own room, and our daughter obviously can't share with him because she's a girl. If we are all going to live together then you need to start contributing financially so we can afford a bigger house."

It's not a 16 year old child's fault that she didn't do that and the way you are talking about him, calling him a freeloader and advising the OP to throw him and his father out (making them homeless and depriving her 12 year old daughter of her father) is really foul.

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 12:57

MargotBamborough · 18/09/2023 12:48

If the OP has been with the child's father for nearly his entire life and consented to his moving into her house four years ago then yes, she does have some responsibility towards him and shouldn't just chuck him out of the only home he has. (And if his mother says he can't live in her house then the only home he has is with his father.)

But it appears she doesn't care much about her own daughter, let alone her stepson.

The time to object to her stepson moving into an already full house was four years ago, before he moved in. She should have said to her partner "Sorry, he can't move in because my son is autistic and needs his own room, and our daughter obviously can't share with him because she's a girl. If we are all going to live together then you need to start contributing financially so we can afford a bigger house."

It's not a 16 year old child's fault that she didn't do that and the way you are talking about him, calling him a freeloader and advising the OP to throw him and his father out (making them homeless and depriving her 12 year old daughter of her father) is really foul.

Edited

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@MargotBamborough

The time to object to her stepson moving into an already full house was four years ago, before he moved in. She should have said to her partner "Sorry, he can't move in because my son is autistic and needs his own room, and our daughter obviously can't share with him because she's a girl. If we are all going to live together then you need to start contributing financially so we can afford a bigger house."

Do you understand that if her partner is the abusive bully that he comes across as this might not have been possible for her?

Again, my number one suggestion is that
the parents take the sofa and the three children have their individual rooms. All three, even SS. What is your problem with this???

In the long term I think it would be better for the physical and financial security of her offspring to get the freeloading partner and his son out of the house as - if he is an undeclared partner this is benefit fraud.

This is not a normal scenario here - if they get caught out they will all be on the streets and OP will lose massive amounts of income. The father can claim for his own accomodation and pay for his own child whilst relieving the current situation as a secondary aspect to that. But the primary is that the partner should never ever have been living there anyway.

MargotBamborough · 18/09/2023 13:05

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 12:57

@MargotBamborough

The time to object to her stepson moving into an already full house was four years ago, before he moved in. She should have said to her partner "Sorry, he can't move in because my son is autistic and needs his own room, and our daughter obviously can't share with him because she's a girl. If we are all going to live together then you need to start contributing financially so we can afford a bigger house."

Do you understand that if her partner is the abusive bully that he comes across as this might not have been possible for her?

Again, my number one suggestion is that
the parents take the sofa and the three children have their individual rooms. All three, even SS. What is your problem with this???

In the long term I think it would be better for the physical and financial security of her offspring to get the freeloading partner and his son out of the house as - if he is an undeclared partner this is benefit fraud.

This is not a normal scenario here - if they get caught out they will all be on the streets and OP will lose massive amounts of income. The father can claim for his own accomodation and pay for his own child whilst relieving the current situation as a secondary aspect to that. But the primary is that the partner should never ever have been living there anyway.

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You are now at the stage of completely imagining an elaborate backstory to justify why the OP allowed this situation to arise and why it is definitely not her fault and why her continued prioritisation of one of her children over both her other child and her stepchild is completely reasonable.

I suspect the real back story is that you recognise aspects of the OP's behaviour in your own circumstances. I can't imagine what else could be provoking such bizarre responses. I'm going to stop engaging with you now.

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 13:28

@MargotBamborough

You’re position on this is laughable.

I said the children should get their own rooms and the parents should take the sofa.

In the longer term the DS will move out once they find him accomodation and the SS probably will too in a year or so when he turns 18.

I am am of the opinion that OP shouldn’t subject herself to financial abuse and bullying. And that remaining in her current position is negative for all.

And I gave a strong theory as to why she is the only one on tenancy/utilities and why she may feel so trapped and unable to move with DP.

I understand the circumstances OP is in because of helping friends with disabled kids/recently separated sort their finances and some have had to avoid moving their partner in because of the financial ramifications which are quite extreme.

It’s like you would fight your way out of a paper bag….

I agree we can agree to disagree.

Have a lovely day.

Blondeshavemorefun · 18/09/2023 13:43

altawalt · 17/09/2023 22:21

I never told DP how long DS would be living here for. When he moved in DS was around 6 so I had no idea what the future looked like. When he moved out, he was always going to be allowed to come back.

Yes, DS needs his own space but I've tried to compromise by suggesting they share but DP is against it because in his words, DS doesn't need to be here.

Also sounds form your update that step son doesn't have to be there

He's only went there as his mum couldn't cope with his behaviour to his gay brother

Tbh both the son and step son sound like they have issues

Hope the sister is ok with those two about

If do says no to boys sharing then

Either you split up

You and dh have living room

Or

You and daughter in a room
Son has a room
Step son and dad /husband share a room

Blondeshavemorefun · 18/09/2023 13:52

Equally

From another update but can't quote a quote via app

Your do not dh - pays nothing

Maybe if he paid into the house then you would be able to afford a 4 bed place

londonmummy1966 · 18/09/2023 14:11

AM I the only one to wonder whether the DS has been violent to the SS and DD in the past? I also wonder if it was more than shoving his girlfriend. It certainly sounds to me as if her parents kicked him out due to the assault and the OP is minimising this. Its quite possible (And I wonder if the OP would admit it even so) that her son has been lashing out at home as well. Maybe her DP was keen he left/doesn't return to protect the two younger children of the family? If so the needs of the autistic child do not trump the other children's physical safety.

Also all the people suggesting that the OP has to protect her benefits if she is trying to say that her DP of many many years is a live out boyfriend - is having an autistic child really a valid excuse for benefit fraud?

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 14:19

@londonmummy1966

No it isn’t an excuse for benefit fraud.

Which is why I have advised OP very strongly to get rid of the DP and his son out of the house.

As IF he is an undeclared live in partner and they are found out this jeopardises her ability to look after her two kids, she’d have a conviction and have to pay back too on top of loss of income.

I cannot think of any other reason why he wouldn’t be on the tenancy and contributing after 14 years. Unless he is just a complete and utter arsehole.

And it would make sense as to why they don’t have a bigger house - SH won’t grant more than 3bed for her DS and DD. If they declare DP and SS then yes they might get a bigger house but they’d also have a swift fall in income as DP’s would be taken into account.

Sprogonthetyne · 18/09/2023 14:40

Sorry if I've missed it but I haven't seen the op say anywhere that it's social housing, or that they are on any kind of benefits. Maybe they own it or rent privately? Is the op even likely to have go a 3 bed council house, 14+ years ago when she only had one child.

I understand the op isn't going to want to put every detail of her life online, but there seems to have been a lot of creative gap filling on this thread.

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 15:00

Sprogonthetyne · 18/09/2023 14:40

Sorry if I've missed it but I haven't seen the op say anywhere that it's social housing, or that they are on any kind of benefits. Maybe they own it or rent privately? Is the op even likely to have go a 3 bed council house, 14+ years ago when she only had one child.

I understand the op isn't going to want to put every detail of her life online, but there seems to have been a lot of creative gap filling on this thread.

@Sprogonthetyne I was right about the developmental capacity of her son and her DP being a cocklodger. She says she has a tenancy and it and all utilities are all in her name which is very unusual, as is not moving to a 4 bed in a cheap area when there are two adults.

There are two options either he is just really awful or she’s purposely kept him off so that he isn’t officially living there….

She absolutely would have got a 3bed as a single Mum with a disabled child.

I’ll dispense with the theories. But the situation with the partner sponging off her is very detrimental and his dictating the odds under these circumstances unacceptable.

SpringViolet · 18/09/2023 15:21

londonmummy1966 · 18/09/2023 14:11

AM I the only one to wonder whether the DS has been violent to the SS and DD in the past? I also wonder if it was more than shoving his girlfriend. It certainly sounds to me as if her parents kicked him out due to the assault and the OP is minimising this. Its quite possible (And I wonder if the OP would admit it even so) that her son has been lashing out at home as well. Maybe her DP was keen he left/doesn't return to protect the two younger children of the family? If so the needs of the autistic child do not trump the other children's physical safety.

Also all the people suggesting that the OP has to protect her benefits if she is trying to say that her DP of many many years is a live out boyfriend - is having an autistic child really a valid excuse for benefit fraud?

Wow, so now the ASD son is the violent one, not the SS who was kicked out of his own mother’s home for fighting and abusing his own brother!

Where did you get that from @londonmummy1966? Is it because ASD people ‘lash out’ and are violent?

My ASD DS has never lashed out and been violent but if someone was in his face, shouting and accusing him of something he hadn’t done, he might have pushed them away from him with a shove too. The same as most NT people would, even without the sensory issues of an ASD person, in a similar situation. The OP didn’t say there were any injuries so even if it did happen, which the DS says it didn’t, it wasn’t necessarily a malicious act of violence.

The OP hasn’t said there have been issues in past with her DS being violent but you have extrapolated that why, because he has ASD?

Batatahara · 18/09/2023 15:31

@SpringViolet did you miss the bit about the DS shoving his girlfriend? It's in the OP

nearlywinteragain · 18/09/2023 15:38

The ds has been accused of being violent by his girlfriend, it was the key reason for him returning to the family home.
An issue is that DP has confronted Ds about the violence and threatened him with violence against himself if there is a recurrence.
OP seems less concerned about the violence than DP which also seems to be adding to family tensions.

Sprogonthetyne · 18/09/2023 15:43

SpringViolet · 18/09/2023 15:21

Wow, so now the ASD son is the violent one, not the SS who was kicked out of his own mother’s home for fighting and abusing his own brother!

Where did you get that from @londonmummy1966? Is it because ASD people ‘lash out’ and are violent?

My ASD DS has never lashed out and been violent but if someone was in his face, shouting and accusing him of something he hadn’t done, he might have pushed them away from him with a shove too. The same as most NT people would, even without the sensory issues of an ASD person, in a similar situation. The OP didn’t say there were any injuries so even if it did happen, which the DS says it didn’t, it wasn’t necessarily a malicious act of violence.

The OP hasn’t said there have been issues in past with her DS being violent but you have extrapolated that why, because he has ASD?

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The violence didn't happen
(because the perpetrator denies it)

Even if it did, it wasn't that bad
(No injuries)

Even if it was, it was probably the girlfriends fault
(for getting in his face)

Do you realise what your doing here?

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 18/09/2023 15:59

Sprogonthetyne · 18/09/2023 15:43

The violence didn't happen
(because the perpetrator denies it)

Even if it did, it wasn't that bad
(No injuries)

Even if it was, it was probably the girlfriends fault
(for getting in his face)

Do you realise what your doing here?

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@Sprogonthetyne you've also forgotten about it also being the younger dss' fault due to the drip feed about his dreadful, awful behaviour...

Batatahara · 18/09/2023 16:00

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 12:31

@Naunet No of course he should not have been physical, it’s unacceptable.

I see it as symptomatic of him not coping as ASD people can lash out whenever they are in a real mess.

If there was a pattern of violent behaviour with people actually getting hurt that would be one thing. He pushed her. It was wrong, but she is fine and they identified that living at hers was not healthy to stop the behaviour.

As it stands it was the final symptom in a long line of decline since May. And I think it’s right he admitted defeat and came home and that GF recognised he wasn’t coping either.

When I talk about needs being met, what I mean is things like

own personal space to regulate
self soothing habits/items to hand
visual schedules
rigid routine
prompts from care giver for support needs

When at home his mum probably sorted his food and washing, prompted him with hygiene and getting up/going to bed/going to work, knew how to calm him and help with regulation and a whole host of other things to help him function in a NT way.

All of which would have freed him up to be able to work. But with those extra demands on top of working and no support he will have floundered and become mentally ill. Won’t have been able to mask, I bet he feels utterly humiliated.

Sorry are you basically saying that because the girlfriend didn't do his washing and cooking, it was her fault that she was assaulted by him?

tattooedteagull · 18/09/2023 16:01

I find the infantalisation of an autistic 20-year-old more ableist than not giving him his room back. I understand autism is a developmental disorder/disability. I have an autistic son. But what about poor DD? Is it fair to turf her father and brother out so DS can have his old room back. Where do her feelings come into all of this?

I know change is tricky for people with ASD, but it's an inevitable part of life. You can support and accommodate someone without molly-coddling and infantalising them. I think OP and DH should invest in a sofa bed and let the kids have a room each, but IF DS did shove his girlfriend then I can see why OP's DH is reluctant.

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 18/09/2023 16:23

@SensationalSusie you say his needs to be met are to be *When I talk about needs being met, what I mean is things like

own personal space to regulate
self soothing habits/items to hand
visual schedules
rigid routine
prompts from care giver for support needs*

How does the rest of the family function in this when his self soothing and rigid routine is to be extremely messy, up all night playing loud music?

Gerrataere · 18/09/2023 17:04

tattooedteagull · 18/09/2023 16:01

I find the infantalisation of an autistic 20-year-old more ableist than not giving him his room back. I understand autism is a developmental disorder/disability. I have an autistic son. But what about poor DD? Is it fair to turf her father and brother out so DS can have his old room back. Where do her feelings come into all of this?

I know change is tricky for people with ASD, but it's an inevitable part of life. You can support and accommodate someone without molly-coddling and infantalising them. I think OP and DH should invest in a sofa bed and let the kids have a room each, but IF DS did shove his girlfriend then I can see why OP's DH is reluctant.

You understand that ASD is a developmental delay disability, yet apparently understanding the needs and weight of this means ‘infantilising’ them? You do know that not all people with autism will ever lead typical adult lives and some may always be very ‘child like’ in behaviour/cognitive abilities? I think this sort of response is worse than those who have zero understanding or completely miss that the op’s son has autism at all. But posters like this who spout how ‘well despite autism he’s got to learn how to get on with it, because I live with an autistic person so this is how I know’ are really the most offensive.

It so dismissive to those who have high needs autism and their parents/carers. Even putting that aside, autism is autism regardless of delays presented and at the moment the OP’s son is in need of care, because he is a vulnerable adult. If there is cause to believe that his behaviour will impact the family (which hasn’t been mentioned so people are making up a narrative on that front) then that care may be from social services but he evidently cannot just ‘get on with it like an adult’ now or possibly at all.

Zampanò · 18/09/2023 18:30

User183642 · 17/09/2023 23:15

Just wow.
You would actually encourage your partner to put his literal child on the streets rather than acknowledge that maybe your child was difficult to live with and that the cause of the stepchild acting out was almost certainly your prioritisation of your own child at the expense of another child.

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Why are you determined to blame the stepsons homophobia on his autistic brother?

londonmummy1966 · 18/09/2023 18:47

SpringViolet · 18/09/2023 15:21

Wow, so now the ASD son is the violent one, not the SS who was kicked out of his own mother’s home for fighting and abusing his own brother!

Where did you get that from @londonmummy1966? Is it because ASD people ‘lash out’ and are violent?

My ASD DS has never lashed out and been violent but if someone was in his face, shouting and accusing him of something he hadn’t done, he might have pushed them away from him with a shove too. The same as most NT people would, even without the sensory issues of an ASD person, in a similar situation. The OP didn’t say there were any injuries so even if it did happen, which the DS says it didn’t, it wasn’t necessarily a malicious act of violence.

The OP hasn’t said there have been issues in past with her DS being violent but you have extrapolated that why, because he has ASD?

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I've extrapolated that from the fact that his girlfriend says he assaulted her. However you seem to have decided that she was making it up "even if it did happen"... Why have you extrapolated that - because she's a woman so asking for it??

tattooedteagull · 18/09/2023 19:28

@Gerrataere I do understand. I have an autistic son and grew up with an autistic brother. I also worked with autistic adults for a number of years. It's a such a broad spectrum and we're not talking about a non-verbal adult with the developmental age of a small child (I don't care what people say, there's a difference!). I'm not trying to minimise his struggles (I'm ND myself) and of course he should be given support, but DD and SS matter too. Do you really think kicking out DD's father and brother wouldn't impact her?

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 22:51

Batatahara · 18/09/2023 16:00

Sorry are you basically saying that because the girlfriend didn't do his washing and cooking, it was her fault that she was assaulted by him?

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@Batatahara

no don’t be silly.

I am saying he will not have been able to take care of many of his personal needs in conjunction to full time work and coping in a new environment and a new family.

We don’t know the context of what was going on to precipitate pushing his girlfriend away.

Was he having a meltdown, were there sensory issues - he wouldn’t necessarily be aware of what was happening in this state.

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge without knowing the full details.

The point is he is disabled and was in a totally inappropriate environment which precipitated his decline and health and I would see the out of character push as symptomatic of that.

As soon as that happened he was brought home and no further issues with regard to physical behaviour - wouldn’t expect anything further as he is now in his home environment with an appropriate care giver.

SensationalSusie · 18/09/2023 22:55

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 18/09/2023 16:23

@SensationalSusie you say his needs to be met are to be *When I talk about needs being met, what I mean is things like

own personal space to regulate
self soothing habits/items to hand
visual schedules
rigid routine
prompts from care giver for support needs*

How does the rest of the family function in this when his self soothing and rigid routine is to be extremely messy, up all night playing loud music?

@MyHornCanPierceTheSky

Simple, if he has his own room the mess is contained and they get him wireless headphones…. and probably some medication and physical exercise prior to bed to help him sleep.

Most of his behaviour would settle anyway if his home situation were resolved and secure. Right now he will have very heightened anxiety especially with the DP giving him a hard time - which he has no right to do as it isn’t his house!!