To think it's perfectly fine to also blame the OW

[Kingofx]

I see so many infidelity posts on here with replies saying "don't blame the OW, blame your spouse"

I agree, the spouse is the one who broke their contract and their choices are to blame, but if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person.

I've been a member of an infidelity support group and while full of stories of weal, deceitful, pathetic excuses for husbands - the stories are also full of quite cruel OW.

People with no empathy, who will often harass the wife, refuse to accept NC and generally act with malice.

I can't picture taking someone else's wallet much less their husband. I think the OW is an adult in these situations and completely deserves contempt.

AIBU to think we give the OW too easy a ride?

Yep. Totally with you, OP.
Of course, the man is more at fault for breaking his vows/promise to his partner, but a woman pursuing and sleeping with a man she knows is taken, is absolutely a vile sack of shit.
I hate that they always seem to be excused.
If they know he's taken, they are awful, awful people.

Simple as that.

And this is exactly what I was trying to say 👏

To add, this is the comment my second comment was referring to.

This is the problem.

Not one person has defended the OW. No one has said you have no right to be pissed off upset or hurt with the OW. Many have pointed out that your perspective to some people seems slightly warped.

But you have posted talking about the ow having "lured" your husband like he had no agency.

A person cannot be stolen without their consent. The title of the thread is pretty clear where you believe the blame lies. You have said people have silenced you and others by pointing out that actually in terms of damage and responsibility for not fucking someone else is higher for the spouse than the OW. Not one person has suggested OW is perfectly good person or anything like that.

But you have used passive language to describe your cheating spouse (less like a person more like a wallet) and some vastly emotive and degrading language to describe these women to mere sex objects or like the men were passively not in control of their dicks and women are just used for one thing.

It's dehumanising on a very basic level

And to be honest although I don't morally condone any women who does become the OW. My bar is higher for my spouse than some women who does this and as I said I do know what I feels like to be cheated on, I just didn't let ow take up that much space in my head rent free.

But again it's a forum and different people set different bars for their life partners. I don't care what people do with their lives but turning people into objects is not a brillant gauge on people imo.

@MidnightMeltdown

As my original question says, I'm talking about "if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person"

@namechanging1212

Lots of people have defended the OW. There's many comments all through the thread along the lines of "she's not married, she owes the wife nothing" and so on.

Others have said it's wrong for the wife to call the OW names or direct anger at her, calling it "dehumanising"

Must say I can't wrap my head around this at all. If someone could me a cunt, I'd be upset for at best 30 seconds.

When someone shagged my husband though, I had to take a year off work for PTSD, dropped upwards of £15,000 in counselling, ended up with depressed children who were harassed by a scorned mistress, had to leave social media, dealt with depression so bad I was suicidal for months and then had to go through a divorce and all the losses for me and my children....

I recall the first year waking up every morning and remembering and going through it all again. Then the night terrors, loss of self, just the bloody trauma.

THAT is dehumanising someone. Not calling them a cunt for doing it.

Nb: for those who keep implying i dont blame my husband - I did a lot worse than call him a cunt. However, unlike OW, he repented, went to years of counselling himself, lost his life really and was clearly remorseful. OW just moved on to do it again, hence I've no respect at all for her. Each circumstance is different mind.

But that's not what the thread is about. I think both parties are accountable for the actions they chose, and simply that victims are free to be angry with OW

I don't wholly disagree with you, but I think there are problems with describing something as 'taken' as if you've bagsied something first in a shop. People are a lot more complicated than that, and they fall in and out of love.

The problem is, when men aren't happy with a relationship, they will usually wait for someone else to come along before leaving, while a woman will often leave even if it means being on her own.

OP, you must realise your reaction is very extreme, a year off and ptsd due to an affair?

Yes but 'pursued the situation' could mean anything. Obviously if you've fallen in love with someone, you're likely to pursue then.

Of course the woman could be deluded and it could all be one sided, but chances are, he's given her a reason behave this way.

@HerMammy In my case I was also harassed and stalked, but no, it's not unusual or "extreme". Most people who experience infidelity take a very long time to recover and PTSD as well as depression and other problems are very common. Short of death, its one of life's worst experiences I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person"
Hardly anyone has given the OW a free pass or said she's ok to have done what she's done.
The overwhelming consensus is that someone choosing to get into an affair with a married person is wrong, just like the overwhelming consensus is that it's entirely reasonable to have negative feelings towards an OW.

The disagreements came in when some posts started holding women explicitly and implicitly responsible for male behaviour (good man until the woman did... rhetoric).

Knowingly getting involved with a married man is a crap thing to do.

A man who chooses to have affair does so because the sad reality is he's chosen to prioritise another person/his own kicks over his marriage and family. He didn't do it because the other woman did X,Y,Z or smiled at him/laughed at his jokes/flattered him. He did it because he valued the immediate ego boost over being loyal to his wife. When he chose to increase contact alone with someone he developed a crush on instead of putting distance there, that was his choice to allocate his time to that woman. It's not only natural that his head was turned and stuff developed. They were all choices he made. He made the decision to risk causing immense hurt to those closest to him because he decided the risk was worth the pay off. That's entirely his decision and it isn't caused by what another human did/didn't do. Nobody drove him to it, or tempted him, or led him down that path, or anything else. Sadly he chose to inflict pain and hurt and trauma on his wife and family because he chose to be dishonest and selfish.

This is a really good example of the disproportionate blame/hate for the OW, that goes beyond a desire to merely acknowledge she is also wrong. It in the language. He, the cheating spouse is described in terms of the behaviour only, and in the mildest way possible "breaking his vows/promises" while she is condemned as being wholly worthless and repulsive - she is "a sack of shit".
Most of the people accused of defending the OW are simply pointing out that the level of vitriol directed at her is inappropriate to her level of culpability. Not that she is blameless.

@MidnightMeltdown

Only 13% of men leave their wife for the affair partner. "Love" doesn't usually come into it. Over my many years as an infidelity coach/ mentor I've dealt with dozens of men who were unfaithful- pretty much all of them had the same reasoning- the affair partner made them feel good, briefly. Most were going through a difficult time or were otherwise damaged in a way that made exterior validation important. Albeit those were men trying to heal. I am sure there are other types who just fancied a shag or enjoyed the thrill.

Yes but 'pursued the situation' could mean anything. Obviously if you've fallen in love with someone, you're likely to pursue then

I personally think you can't "fall in love" unless you're in a relationship. Infatuation/ crush maybe, but love is a deep feeling. I might be wrong, but I think love is a very big deal and it's not one sided. Regardless, I wouldn't pursue (in any way) someone who was married.

Fml referring to your husband as a passive object is dehumanising like a wallet, it also doesn't take into account he is the one who got married, created a family and made the choice to risk his family shifts the blame away from him and on to the OW.

People saying that the ow didn't make vows to not fuck up a entire family system is factually accurate not defending it. People are inherently selfish, that fact doesn't mitigate or minimise the hurt caused but it puts the picture into perspective.

Like I expect my family to club together to make sure my children are kept and raised in a manner I would prefer (if I died) than a random stranger. Closeness and the ability to see everything is only held by one person in a affair situation than that's the man

People seem to have more contempt for a stranger causing a family to be broken up, than the man who created the family and knew it's impact and did it anyway. And that doesn't sit right for me personally.

Ultimately my ex made vows to me and the ow didn't. She didn't know me, she only knew what he told her.

The betrayal imo obviously is worse from the husband's side than the ow (unless of course you have a situation like yourself which is very specific and I can only hope quite rare re ow actions post)

If you had asked me straight after I found out I would have agreed with you, but hindsight has let me consider that me being angry with her was stopping me from seeing my anger to him. It's a grieving process and I have grieved and buried that body mentally.

Ultimately though most peoples comments I suspect come from a place of pain and feeling conflicted for loving someone who didn't see their value, and it's easier to blame a stranger (ow/om) than look at your cheating partner and do you had a fucking choice and you risked me anyway.

People flagging the obvious aren't trying to minimise or cause pain to the spouses on receiving end of cheating, believe it or not and (maybe I only speak for myself here) it maybe people trying to point out that you can't move past something like this without seeing the full picture.

Call the Ow a cunt etc idgaf - but I don't have skin in the game so to speak but many many cheating spouses have good reason to rile you up against the OW/OM because it deflects your anger away from them.

Personally I hope all cheating spouses step on a rusty nail daily but chances are they deficient in something that should have stopped them getting married in the first place. The OW/OM are and should be irrelevant in all senses of the term.

I'm many years down the line so my perspective may be different. I have been there believe me, I don't judge anyone for it whatever they decide but to tackle this issue you have to get to the root cause and it's not the OW/OM otherwise many hookers would be out of work .

Speaking of and I'm asking the group at large - do or should hookers ger the same level of blame assigned to them as the OW ? Genuine question because my answer would be the same personally whether Ow or hooker in my book.

@5128gap

This is a really good example of the disproportionate blame/hate for the OW, that goes beyond a desire to merely acknowledge she is also wrong. It in the language. He, the cheating spouse is described in terms of the behaviour only, and in the mildest way possible "breaking his vows/promises" while she is condemned as being wholly worthless and repulsive - she is "a sack of shit".
Most of the people accused of defending the OW are simply pointing out that the level of vitriol directed at her is inappropriate to her level of culpability. Not that she is blameless

My personal take on this, I'd that people are struggling to understand the thread is about the OW.

If the thread was entitled "AIBU to think husbands who cheat are bad?"

Then you'd see replies calling them a vile sack of shit. As is what people are expecting are comments that aren't responding to the question

So by your reckoning the man is worse than a sack of shit. He is the vilest most repugnant creature and no wife should possibly consider staying with this worthless, vile piece of excrement. Is that your position?

Speaking of and I'm asking the group at large - do or should hookers ger the same level of blame assigned to them as the OW ? Genuine question because my answer would be the same personally whether Ow or hooker in my book.

That's a really good question. On a purely sexual level I'd view them the same. Setting aside my personal feelings about the sex industry, they are both choosing to sleep with a married man. Both are responsible for their actions and neither are responsible for the man's behaviour.

The emotional entanglement on one or both sides of an affair makes the actions forming an affair more complex. An OW who knows the wife is different to an OW who is detached and out the way for example. It's a different level of judgement because the behaviour itself is different.

This is a really good example of the disproportionate blame/hate for the
OW, that goes beyond a desire to merely acknowledge she is also wrong.
It in the language. He, the cheating spouse is described in terms of
the behaviour only, and in the mildest way possible "breaking his
vows/promises" while she is condemned as being wholly worthless and
repulsive - she is "a sack of shit".

You are pointing out the fairness of the situation concerning language,

The fairness

We don't care about fairness that's whole point, fairness did not enter our world whilst two people were taking away our sexual consent of being in a non manogamous three way relationship. We had our sexual, mental and emotional health compromised and we are to be told we should be aware of the language we use so as not to offend ow.
We should show mercy and understanding but they didn't.

Sounds great, are there any possitives about being taken for a mug and being betrayed, it seems after the fact we are not allowed free speech to talk about our devastation. All of it seems like a conspiracy to silence the betrayed, we talk and instantly the same excuse is rolled out, that it is only the mens fault and it mysogyny to say anything negative towards women.
It honestly prevents and stops the truly awful treatment the betrayed have suffered, allowing them a voice to be heard and have honest discussions.

Men couldn't have it any better, they shag and then they have women fighting against one another.

Until there is a consensus stating that people should not have affairs then men will actively use these women, you are contributing to the problem of slaggy, promiscuous men.

One day I hope the discovery of infedelity promotes the help and support of society, it is not minimal suffering, it is loss on a massive scale but in society it is minimised.

Can you imagine a future whereby a betrayed spouse is treated as a true victim, where care, concern, medical and financial help is put in place by the authorities. It's like a cullmination of losses, loss of health, loss of financial security, loss of home, loss of children if they are used against you, loss of in laws, loss of job, loss of friends and so many more things.
People and society minimise it, men certainly minimise it and ow, they seem to be the strongest voices in minimsing it for their own purposes.

In years I hope it becomes laughable that ow even have an opinion about their behaviour along with the men, it's really a terrible thing to do to someone.

Speaking of and I'm asking the group at large - do or should hookers ger the same level of blame assigned to them as the OW ? Genuine question because my answer would be the same personally whether Ow or hooker in my book

To me this would be sex, not an affair. So no. Likewise a ONS would not get the same level of blame as someone who had a long term affair.

I sort of attribute blame or criticism to people based on their actions, motivations, known consequences and whether they feel remorse, but that's me personally.

My OP is about someone who knowingly persues someone married and might even try and battle the wife. To me, that's an almost astoundingly bad person.

I thought , for example that Gina chick who had the affair was an astoundingly bad person. Notwithstanding her own family, that whole episode felt like the yukky affair duo were completely vile to their spouses. Flaunting the affair on TV and so on. I felt so bad for their children.

an infidelity coach/ mentor
a what now?

@TickyTimeBomb

Can you imagine a future whereby a betrayed spouse is treated as a true victim, where care, concern, medical and financial help is put in place by the authorities. It's like a cullmination of losses, loss of health, loss of financial security, loss of home, loss of children if they are used against you, loss of in laws, loss of job, loss of friends and so many more things.
People and society minimise it, men certainly minimise it and ow, they seem to be the strongest voices in minimsing it for their own purposes

Completely agree with that. It's one of the only legal ways you can abuse someone

@HerMammy

In a support group.

So by your reckoning the man is worse than a sack of shit. He is the
vilest most repugnant creature and no wife should possibly consider
staying with this worthless, vile piece of excrement. Is that your
position?

I think you severly underestimate wives.

Well I suppose it comes down to threat percentage a person poses to a marriage and what risk is of the person is of being replaced by the new.

A hooker by definition is doing it as a job and therefore 0 threat to the marriage bar potentially risk to STDs and creating a emotional barrier.

That said I would view that as a betrayal to my marriage as I haven't consented to have a open marriage. To me the damage is in the trust element but others can and do view things differently.

I can almost get my head around my ex falling in love with someone else (and having a affair, almost) but for some reason the thought he would "buy" sex in a transactional way would make me feel worse. If it was some throw away shag that didn't mean anything to him would make me feel worse. But I will be honest I don't know exactly why.

Full disclaimer I have no problem with sex workers etc if they are willing consenting adults that chose to do that of their own free will and I suspect sex workers are less likely to have stds due to the nature of their work but having no dealings in that area I have no idea

Completely digressing but there are sadly plenty of legal ways to abuse someone.

The family courts spring to mind