To think it's perfectly fine to also blame the OW

[Kingofx]

I see so many infidelity posts on here with replies saying "don't blame the OW, blame your spouse"

I agree, the spouse is the one who broke their contract and their choices are to blame, but if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person.

I've been a member of an infidelity support group and while full of stories of weal, deceitful, pathetic excuses for husbands - the stories are also full of quite cruel OW.

People with no empathy, who will often harass the wife, refuse to accept NC and generally act with malice.

I can't picture taking someone else's wallet much less their husband. I think the OW is an adult in these situations and completely deserves contempt.

AIBU to think we give the OW too easy a ride?

@Superlegs

And plenty of ow will have been fed a pack of lies by the married man about the state of their marriage, some of them will be too young/ naive to know any better, some come from homes where a healthy relationship was not modelled and all manner of dysfunction, are they are shower of cunts too, are they equally to blame for the breakdown of a marriage?

1. I never said anyone was equally to blame. I think it varies depending on specific circumstances.

1. Shagging a married person is a shit act, regardless of who instigates it. If its a one off you hugely regret and atone as far as possible for, then you're likely a less shit person.

1. You've characterised a vulnerable woman in your narrative whos been manipulated and groomed. I am sure this is sometimes the case. It's also sometimes the case that the opoosite is true

Women are not ALL weak, vulnerable, gentle souls who are preyed on by a more powerful man who manipulates them when they're struggling or otherwise not in their right mind.

Sometimes they are just shit people.

Oh @Superlegs

Thinking a woman who sleeps with other people's spouses is a shit person is not misogyny.

I think women have all the agency in the world to choose not to do that:)

I'm not really interested. You just want an echo chamber to spew your bile and hatred. Any alternative suggestions i.e. it's the man that made the vows are shot down with
'ITS NOT ABOUT MEN' . it'S aBouT THe oTHer WOMAN OnLY!!!!!

Its not a balanced discussion, so you crack on love. I'm out of here.

Err mate, the angriest person is this thread is you and you're not even a person who's experienced the topic 🙄

Weeeelll.... its been an interesting thread. It prompted me to look up a bit of research and it's proven that people with psychopathy or sociopathy tend to "poach mates". Obviously not to say the poached wasn't willing, but the behaviour (from both men and women) to attempt to start a romantic or sexual relationship with someone who's married, is scientifically linked to the dark triad. Possibly explaining the lack of empathy involved.

There was also a study done which showed when someone is flirted with, it makes their existing partner seem less attractive. Something to do with the principle of scarcity, but really rather illustrates the point I was trying to make they turning attentions romantically to a married person can often cause problems.

I started the thread as I was irritated at seeing women who've been cheated on being told what to feel and so on, but it's been enlightening to hear the small number of people that were quite... err... emphatic about feeling the OW is blameless.

It came across (my view only) that those people seemed to believe women are always innocent victims and that being angry or rude about a woman is always misogyny. Interestingly most of them seemed to have never experienced infidelity or participated in it (they say) so maybe their feelings on that are to do with views of men and women more generally....

Comforting to know at least a notable majority of people can support women in their justifiable anger, and understand each person is accountable for their own actions.

Much love to the women here who lived through this. I empathise so much with the chaos and trauma wrought on you and your children by the selfish choices of other people.

this thread is about the womans conduct. Yet you and all your derailing friends can't stop talking about the men.

Are you obsessed with men? What is your deal?
Not obsessed with men at all.

The thread is about the level of blame for OW. That's exactly what is being discussed.

Discussing that OW are 100% responsible for their actions, whilst challenging the dozens of comments that blame women for male behaviour is entirely reasonable.

I don't buy the idea that all these wonderful husbands were such good guys, didn't want an affair but when a woman does (insert something here ranging from makes eye contact, laughs at his jokes etc) he's obviously human so went home and had sexy thoughts about her, and went on to actively seek sex outside his marriage.

A more pertinent question might be why are some people on this thread so reluctant to hold men accountable that they'd rather (explicitly and/or implicitly) blame a woman for male choices to varying degrees?

Very weirdly I've managed through the ages betwee 16 and in my 60's not to have an affair with a married man.

Was it hard, No.

Were there some fantastically intellegent men that bamboozelled me into believing they were free, No.

Would I ever be enticed into thinking sloppy seconds sex is appealing, No.

Do I think people lie continuously about affairs, yes, before they happen, during and for many years after, they lie about the narrative, the only thing they do not lie about is the fact that they show themselves to be completely unaware of the pain and destruction that affairs are capable of inflicting.

Ow havn't a clue, they never have and they never will.

At least with a husband they are close enough for you to inflict your punishment on them and there are many men who realise the hell and wrath of a woman scorned.

Society is not kind to cheaters, they arn't respected and that's why no one in real life admits it and if you were to spout it proudly in RL and say nope sorry it's not my fault it's mysogyny, it wouldn't take long for before someone tumped you.

It's like being proud of being a bad mother, it doesn't happen.

No husband ever got dragged into someone else's bed by force. The OW owes an unknown wife nothing.

Put the blame where it should be - with the one that exchanged vows with you.

No, you are wrong.

No child ever deserves to be threatened, I am not lucky that it didn't escalate further. This was a poor choice made by her that says a lot about her character.

Nothing could ever make me go after an innocent child. Nothing.

Of course she can hate me, she can think a whole host of awful things about me. I did a shitty thing.

But harassment/stalking/threatening are all matters for the police and there is no excuse.

TickyTimeBomb
I agree with you. Society is rightly judgemental about cheaters and harshly judges infidelity on the whole. It's why it's totally reasonable for a betrayed spouse to have anger, hatred and many other intense negative feelings about the OW/OM and the cheating spouse.

It's also why I suspect many people change their view of people they know if they find out that they've either had an affair or been involved with a married person. It's understandable that the behaviour leads people to draw conclusions about them such as them being dishonest, untrustworthy etc.

Many people go through life not having affairs, women and men. The majority of men and women don't find themselves naked and shagging someone because their colleague smiled at the water cooler and laughed at their jokes. Everyone has agency and most people have appropriate boundaries.

Some people do not have appropriate boundaries. They push the envelope, test the waters, get into grey areas, enjoy the thrill, pull out the scripts/kid themselves and fall for the scripts because it's convenient and allows them to internally minimise their shitty behaviour.

For those who choose to have an affair it is the culmination of THEIR actions over time. It's THEIR free choice to keep pushing and testing the waters for a quick ego boost. It's THEIR choice to find ways to be alone with someone they've started to fancy instead of distancing themselves/remaining professional at work. It's THEIR choice to start telling themselves that they're only really making friends with Tina/Mike/Janet/Mark because their spouse doesn't get them etc because they want to justify their behaviour. It is THEIR choice to see all the red flags but enjoy the ego boost enough that they downplay it as 'just good friends'. It's THEIR choice if they choose to lie to their spouse and gaslight about how unreasonable the spouse for objecting to them spending lots of additional time with a certain someone.

It's the outcome of THEM repeatedly prioritising someone over their spouse. It's the responsibility lies with the individuals for THEIR actions.

The OM is not responsible for a wife cheating and does not have equal responsibility if a wife has an affair because the WIFE has the responsibility to put boundaries in place and prioritise her marriage.

The OW is not responsible for a husband cheating and does not have equal responsibility if a wife has an affair because the HUSBAND has the responsibility to put boundaries in place and prioritise her marriage.

It might feel better to minimise the spouse's betrayal by saying they were an amazing husband/wife and didn't want an affair, but they're just human so when the OW/OM made too much eye contact it's just natural they developed fantasies and then acted on them but it's bollocks.

The OW is not responsible for a husband cheating and does not have equal responsibility if a husband has an affair because the HUSBAND has the responsibility to put boundaries in place and prioritise her marriage.

Why can't they both share some of the blame for an affair? She didn't sleepwalk into bed with him either. It's not usually 50-50, no. Still share blame.

Some very odd views here that's for sure. I'm literally quoting this from the internet:

Meet 36-year-old Jenny who is also a mother of two daughters. She exclusively dates married men and feels good about her ‘empowered’ decision. On her decision to exclusively date married men Jenny says this:

“I realised it is in the male nature to behave this way and firmly believe there’s no such thing as a faithful man. I’m not a man hater – I just don’t think men are made to be with one woman. It is so much better than dating single men as I have a satisfaction of knowing this man would not go behind my back. Being the other woman, not only do you know where you stand, it’s flattering that you have been chosen over his wife.”

Jenny goes on to say:

"I never feel guilty doing what I’m doing, it takes two to tango. I don’t set out to ruin someone’s relationship. I feel sad for their wives that their husband is doing this but if he wasn’t doing it with me, he would be off doing it with someone else. Why should I be criticised for dating a man who is married? I’m unattached, he’s the one having an affair, not me.”

I think there's a few people on this thread who share Jennys sentiments obviously.

I agree. And I do accept my part in that. I had a one night stand, and that had a domino efeect on a number of different resulting actions. Which ultimately landed at the door of my children. I wish it was different but it's not, and I need to accept my part in it.

Christ, that's a crap read. I have to believe she is in minority though. It's a very callous way of thinking!

You're right, it's actually incredibly common for the OW or OM to be a bit poor when ranked against the spouse. A lot of people having affairs are doing it to feel better about themselves and therefore the "affair market" is full of complete losers.

Ugh, here's another one;

“What is it about a married or committed man that makes us women flip the lid and have an affair? The way I see it, it’s probably the fact that he’s already taken. I mean, if he’s already taken, that means he has to be good, right? Otherwise, why would a woman pick him? And if his woman is a pretty looker in the first place, I’d be flattered if the guy leaves her to come to me. That would just show how good looking I am myself, wouldn’t it?”

I think affairs do come in various flavours, but certainly 15 years in support groups (I'm a mentor nowadays) has taught me that there I'd certainly a number of these types of affairs going around, where the OM / OW is a serial affair partner.

It was always interesting to me that those character profiles seemed over invested in "winning", often declaring passionate love and desperation to beat the spouse. Maybe an ego problem of some sort?

Quite commonly these types will get very, very angry if the spouse decides to end the affair. Hence the enormous amounts of police cases for stalking and harassment. I'm not sure that's what love or passion is. If I were rejected I'd be at home crying - not stalking!

I always struggled to fully understand the mind of an OW. Aside from anything else, it's strange to me that you would want to feel like a bit on the side.

I think YABU

A man isn't a belonging like a wallet that can be 'stolen'.

I also don't think that can create a 'contract' on love. People grow and change and sometimes they just fall in love with someone else.
Most people I know who married in their 20s divorced in their 40s because they changed so much as people over the years.

When men cheat just for sex, then that is slightly different. However, I think that a man who wants to do this will do it regardless. If one women says no, then they'll find someone else. Maybe even pay a prostitute if he doesn't have any other opportunity.

This is a very specific circumstance in which someone deliberately goes after married men just for the thrill of it. This is obviously wrong, but I would imagine pretty rare.

This was written by the daily fail.

I personally don't take what they say seriously on any level and just for clarity It wasn't written by OW but by a reporter who definitely worded it to increase clicks by their target demographic.

The link to the actual article

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3530119/amp/Why-date-married-men-Twice-divorced-serial-mistress-admits-finds-flattering-chosen-wives-says-NO-husband-trusted.html

🙄🙄 let's not pretend that this was written by a OW . It was a new article because people like her are uncommon, not because there are lots of women like her.

Similar to news articles in the sun or take a break with the heading "I married a tree and we are expecting our first baby".

@namechanging1212

It was a new article because people like her are uncommon, not because there are lots of women like her

There's nearly 2 million single women on Ashley Madison alone.

There's quite a lot of people in the world who are very happy to, and get enjoyment from both cheating on spouses and being an affair partner unfortunately.

The idea everyone involved has terribly conflicted feelings is not true - many on this thread have said "the OW isn't married, only the cheater is to blame" or "if it wasn't the OW it would just be someone else.

So even here on this thread quite a few people echo those ideas.

@namechangnancy the OW is quoted in the article... willing to be bet if it showed OW in a different light there wouldn't be any critique about daily fail journalism

@Kingofx and how many on Ashely madison that were men... a lot more so let's not pretend.

The women you quoted goes after married men because she wants to but unless she had a gun to their heads the men she's slept with had agency. I don't get women like her. I don't fucking understand it but the focus on the ow often deflects from the man.

Christ you did a aibu post and getting narky when people disagree with you and I have literally been in cheated on at my most vulnerable and I still think to place sole blame on the ow is fucking wrong.

Not narky at all. Having a discussion. The only people who've been narky on the thread are the ones seemingly defending OW.

The only time I've been vaguely peeved by anything here is one person started making personal attacks for which there's no need.

You're post seems to have jumped to whataboutery "oh but more men do this".

Then you've said things that are outright not true (dont think anyone here has come even close to saying the blame is solely on the OW).

Not being narky :) I think some people just prefer not being answered back, but it's my thread and discussion so can't see a problem with me replying to comments

@Kingofx

Reading your further posts it seems that you are talking about a very specific (and I would say unusual) set of circumstances in which a women deliberately targets married men for the thrill of it. In these cases, I would say YANBU.

However, I think it's more often the case that the man falls out of love with his wife and meets someone else, and then the wife blames the OW out of jealousy. Probably to deflect the uncomfortable feeling that her husband doesn't love her anymore. In these cases, I think it is unreasonable to blame OW.