To think it's perfectly fine to also blame the OW

[Kingofx]

I see so many infidelity posts on here with replies saying "don't blame the OW, blame your spouse"

I agree, the spouse is the one who broke their contract and their choices are to blame, but if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person.

I've been a member of an infidelity support group and while full of stories of weal, deceitful, pathetic excuses for husbands - the stories are also full of quite cruel OW.

People with no empathy, who will often harass the wife, refuse to accept NC and generally act with malice.

I can't picture taking someone else's wallet much less their husband. I think the OW is an adult in these situations and completely deserves contempt.

AIBU to think we give the OW too easy a ride?

You’ve gotta laugh at the idea that all these ow are man hungry sirens that are luring hapless married men away from their doting wives

Sirens is flattering and denigrating also to the wife. I think the idea of themselves as a "siren" is probably appealing to the OW because part of the psychological thrill for them is to feel they're better. My OW was 18 years my senior and balding. I understand some affairs are with hotties of some kind, but more often than not they're just available.

What I think is obvious is that they're lacking empathy and moral fibre certainly, but also probably self esteem. I don't think healthy people would want a cheating man, or to take scraps from someone else's table. They'd want a healthy relationship founded on honesty, respect and decency.

So to me no, not a "siren" who "lures". More likely a shitty human being who gets enjoyment over feeling able to "lure". Which in reality isn't a reflection of their worth or supreme irresistibility.

It's more a reflection of the weaknesses of their target that they happen to have triggered. Of course you have "exit affairs" where people leave their spouse for the affair partner or cases of genuine love that occurred in bad circumstances.

The vast majority of the time though it's just two fucked up people trying to feel good, and as others have said the only victim is the spouse

@bingbongbang23

The difference I will always find odd is that all anger is on me and none on her ex-husband. Seemingly he was perfect and it was all down to me. I was then harassed, and not in a small way. Stalking, threatening behaviour, bringing my children into it, my work. I will forever say my behaviour was wrong, but her behaviour was just as bad. However as she was the wronged woman she will never accept that. Her hatred of me flicked a switch in her that was terrifying. Anyone who threatens a child is not stable. And I personally will never forgive her for her actions

I agree with you and no matter what you did, harassment or messing with your kids snd work is not am acceptable reaction.

The OW did all these things to me when she couldn't accept my ex DH didn't return her loving feelings.

The thing is though, my ex DH didn't cause the OW to behave like she did, but right or wrong I blamed him for it.

Because affairs are messy business and cause pain, drama and can definitely be expected to harm your children and affect your work.

So I think he opened our kids up to OW by having an affair. Maybe also consider that you did the same? I am not saying her behaviour was right, because it wasn't, but you need to be accountable to opening the door to your family being harmed in some way by your cheating.

My ex husband was able to sit with that and realise while he didn't commit the actions, he opened that door.

I'll be honest, if I had an affair with someone's husband I'd DEFINITELY be worried about possible repercussions. I'd be thinking, what if the angry wife contacts my work, our publicly "outs" me? What if my kids find out?

These sorts of dramas aren't pleasant, and often have shock waves.

Nobody said any of that. Nobody has blamed women for mens actions.

This thread is about the women, and their actions. It's very misogynistic that you can't stop yourselves constantly bringing it back to the men, no matter what. It's not about them.
We are allowed to talk about women without discussing men.

It is quite tiring @boromu222

Maybe we should say OM/OW so there's no confusion.

OW could also be in a same-sex relationship so men don't need to be brought into discussion to shut it down. A husband could also sleep with OM, not just a woman.

Compare your description of the OW here OP,
What I think is obvious is that they're lacking empathy and moral fibre certainly, but also probably self esteem. I don't think healthy people would want a cheating man, or to take scraps from someone else's table. They'd want a healthy relationship founded on honesty, respect and decency.

With your descriptions of married men who cheat:
Let's say I then approach him again on a work away day, again, lots of deep eye contact and flirting. And despite himself he finds himself getting turned on and wondering what it might be like to take me to bed.

At this point...the man is already probably fantasising about me in the shower, and he has a bond with me on an emotional level. Let's say this makes him a bit less interested in his wife - because that feeling, those endorphins feel quite electric.

He loves his wife. He doesn't want an affair. But now he can't stop thinking about me - about how I make him feel. The way I listen to him and hang on his every word. The way we're such good friends. The way I pay him all that attention while his wife is (as a PP said, at home, frazzled and dealing with laundry).

It's always the same. The woman luring a man away. He's a good man til she shows up.
She's obviously immoral and loves seeking scraps from the table, but the husband well they're just decent men who find themselves stuck when a woman throws herself at him

Compare your description of the OW here OP,
What I think is obvious is that they're lacking empathy and moral fibre certainly, but also probably self esteem. I don't think healthy people would want a cheating man, or to take scraps from someone else's table. They'd want a healthy relationship founded on honesty, respect and decency.

With your descriptions of married men who cheat:
Let's say I then approach him again on a work away day, again, lots of deep eye contact and flirting. And despite himself he finds himself getting turned on and wondering what it might be like to take me to bed.

At this point...the man is already probably fantasising about me in the shower, and he has a bond with me on an emotional level. Let's say this makes him a bit less interested in his wife - because that feeling, those endorphins feel quite electric.

He loves his wife. He doesn't want an affair. But now he can't stop thinking about me - about how I make him feel. The way I listen to him and hang on his every word. The way we're such good friends. The way I pay him all that attention while his wife is (as a PP said, at home, frazzled and dealing with laundry).

It's always the same. The woman luring a man away. He's a good man til she shows up.
She's obviously immoral and loves seeking scraps from the table, but the husband well they're just decent men who find themselves stuck when a woman throws herself at him

You didn't understand any of that, or read the context.

ITS NOT ABOUT THE MEN, DEAR.

Nobody said any of that. Nobody has blamed women for mens actions.
The thread is full of it.

This thread is about the women, and their actions. It's very misogynistic that you can't stop yourselves constantly bringing it back to the men, no matter what. It's not about them.
We are allowed to talk about women without discussing men.
Of course you can discuss women. Nobody has said otherwise.

It's not misogynistic to hold men responsible for their actions.
It's not misogynistic to say women are not to blame for male actions.

The conduct of the male part of the affair is totally relevant to posts where his actions are minimised by suggesting the woman was really responsible.

Most people, me included, believe women who get involved with married men are 100% responsible for their actions and think it's entirely normal and reasonable that a betrayed spouse would feel anger towards her.

It's entirely possible to think a woman's conduct is unacceptable AND that she is not responsible for a man's decision to cheat.

AP is not responsible for the affair starting, as spouse is the gateway.

AP is responsible for choosing to partake and engage.

AP should have some responsibility and balls to open up to this.

@LolaSmiles

You're cherry picking words here Lola to try and make a point. I've also described cheating husbands in very denigrating terms.

The point of my analogy is that the man isn't always sitting there gagging to shag the woman. Sometimes she goes after him deliberately and the point of the thread is that the OW is, in those circumstances, also to blame.

I could start another thread on women who are seduced by men who deliberately go after them, groom them or take advantage - as this happens all the time too. But that's not what this thread is about.

It's about women who deliberately, intentionally and knowing go after a married man. Those are the ones who do, deliberately and with full intent try to break up a marriage. You might not feel blame for achieving their goal falls on them because you might feel men should be equipped to resist.

I disagree. I've seen time and time again women and men who would not have done what they did if the OM / OW had not gone after them.

I think upbringing has a large part to do with it aswell.

Children of divorced parents are likely to see marriage and children as expendable with a shelf life or expiry date which is now seen as totally acceptable within society.

Whether it being unintellegence that two people got together and one of them was incapable of forming a life long bond with a partner.

Where the problem lies is where one person has the maturity and emotional intellegence to think of marriage and the upbringing of children as their priority, to give their offspring the best chance of survival in an ever increasingly harsh and hard world. I personally think my husband was dim, opportunities have now been obliterated for our children due to his choices, the children know it and he knows it, unfortunately it would have been good if he had seen those poor choices at the time as being long lasting and having repercusions.

Love, many times is a rediculous notion that modern, first world countries perpetuate in stories, books, films to make money, love is transient, lust is transient.

Children however are not transient, survival is not transient and there are ways of filling your life with many different pursuits, interests and hobbies when bored.
To choose sex as a hobby or as pain relief at the expense of others is a signal as to how dull you are as a person.

For the record, I never needed to put into action the effectiveness of my female prowess by garnering attention from other men, of course married women can and could do it, easy peasy.

But would we
No.

Because we respect our children, our husbands and other women, and when someone does not uphold the same values as ourselves we are entitled to dislike them and be fearful of their characters and motives.

We absolutely are entitled to dislike men and women who partake in affairs.

@TickyTimeBomb Married people who have affairs are incredibly selfish and stupid. In my experience with problems of their own. It's not healthy behavior. I divorced my ex because I realised that, no matter how sorry he was, this generally points to issues inside oneself.

I could start another thread on women who are seduced by men who deliberately go after them, groom them or take advantage - as this happens all the time too. But that's not what this thread is about.

Would imagine those women to be in a minority, unless your married to a premier League footballer.
How exactly do you know they deliberately targeted a married man, have you spoken to the ow, or is this coming out of the mouth of a poor cheat who was defenseless against such advances, cause we all know they don't tell lies don't we.

If the other woman knows he's married she's a shit person, but ultimately your husband is the one to blame

@Superlegs

The world is full of women targeted by men. Older men, powerful men, groomers. Sometimes just abusive love bombers.

How exactly do you know they deliberately targeted a married man, have you spoken to the ow

In my case yes.

More generally you're living in fairy land if you think some women don't target married men. I've heard them outright boast about it.

Sorry, if your man cheated on you, he was always open to being a cheater. He was never a good, loyal man. If it wasn't her, it would be someone else in the future. He was always going to cheat in the end.

He's a cheater and trying to offload some blame off him onto the other woman isn't helping you.

The other woman just came out and said she targeted your 'poor' husband ?

More generally you're living in fairy land if you think some women don't target married men. I've heard them outright boast about it.

Show me one of my posts where I have said ALL women do anything.

Incredibly niave post.

Women do not chase dregs.

Excuse me, but where have I said anywhere on this thread that women are doing chasing of any sort ?

Excuse me, but where have I said anywhere on this thread that women are doing chasing of any sort ?

Well you shoud, because women do chase men, they don't just sit there and not participate and they certainly don't know how to say no, it's not in their vocabulary, misogyny seems to be their prefered word, especially when they're trying to re write history and overcome their self hatred and stabbing concience.

Awe poor ow, must we all feel sorry for you ?

There, There I'll send the menz round to make it all go away and kiss it better 😘

@Superlegs

The other woman just came out and said she targeted your 'poor' husband?

Yes, funnily enough, when her career and freedom were in the balance due to police involvement with her stalking she turned on the waterworks and admitted she was infatuated with him and deliberately targeted him.

She moved on 6 weeks later to shag another married man.

More generally you're living in fairy land if you think some women don't target married men. I've heard them outright boast about it.

Show me one of my posts where I have said ALL women do anything

I didn't say all. I said some. And I'll upgrade that to plenty. Plenty do.

More generally you're living in fairy land if you think some women don't target married men. I've heard them outright boast about it.

I think you're probably the one living in fairy land if you think any sane woman would chase after an overweight, balding middle aged man with average income.

What does it say about your husband that he pursued and slept with a clearly unstable woman.

@RiderofRohan

Sorry, if your man cheated on you, he was always open to being a cheater

Almost everyone is open to being a cheater. They might not realise it, but there's a reason why the world is full of crying, desperate people who can't believe they'd ever did, but did it.

He was never a good, loyal man. If it wasn't her, it would be someone else in the future. He was always going to cheat in the end

In some situations this might be true. In many not. One of the best marriages I know the husband cheated 30 years ago and adores his wife and is a good, loyal man.

He's a cheater and trying to offload some blame off him onto the other woman isn't helping you

Blame isn't finite. If two people harm you, it's perfectly fine to blame them both.

Everything about posts like yours is why I created this thread. This happened to me 15 years ago so I frankly don't give a toss anymore. What I do feel is very protective about women having to tolerate posts like yours.

Everything about it is insulting to the wife: implying you know their husband better than they do, implying the problem is a dysfunction in them.

Simple fact is, those women are entitled to blame the woman who shagged their spouse. It's not up to you to decide what's helpful. It's just their complete perogative, and we should support victims of infidelity far better by not invalidating their perfectly normal reaction.

I think they've been through quite enough without trying to reframe them as the bitter, scorned woman desperate to stand by their husband. Its so shaming. How about we try this? "Yep, she shagged your husband. What a cunt"

Ultimately its okay ladies: don't be shamed into feeling you're not allowed to feel that way.

Women that chase after married men are very much in the minority, I'm yet to meet one, but I heard a friend of a friend that once knew one. I guess it's just a hard pill to swallow that your (ex) husband has manipulated and groomed someone into having sex with them.

It's entirely possible to think a woman's conduct is unacceptable AND that she is not responsible for a man's decision to cheat.

this thread is about the womans conduct. Yet you and all your derailing friends can't stop talking about the men.

Are you obsessed with men? What is your deal?