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Original poster

To think it's perfectly fine to also blame the OW

898 replies

Kingofx · 17/09/2023 11:59

I see so many infidelity posts on here with replies saying "don't blame the OW, blame your spouse"

I agree, the spouse is the one who broke their contract and their choices are to blame, but if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person.

I've been a member of an infidelity support group and while full of stories of weal, deceitful, pathetic excuses for husbands - the stories are also full of quite cruel OW.

People with no empathy, who will often harass the wife, refuse to accept NC and generally act with malice.

I can't picture taking someone else's wallet much less their husband. I think the OW is an adult in these situations and completely deserves contempt.

AIBU to think we give the OW too easy a ride?

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 19/09/2023 14:10

Seriously though, pp said the OW is responsible for her own actions. How can you disagree with that? And simultaneously claim that the wife/partner owes the OW respect and fairness?
I wouldn't say many people think a betrayed spouse owes the OW/OM respect and fairness. A betrayed spouse has every right to hate the guts of the affair partner. The affair partner has behaved badly and is 100% responsible for their actions.

Where the betrayed spouse becomes unreasonable is where they do mental gymnastics to minimise their spouse's betrayal and that shows in many ways. It shows up in the "everything was great with DH until OW came on the scene", "DH is a good man and had a happy marriage until OW led him astray or turned his head", "DH never intended to have an affair because he loves me, but it's human nature and he has his flaws like we all do so when OW got her claws into him an affair happened", "OW took advantage of how helpful and friendly DH is (even though DH didn't have form for helping out male colleagues and female colleagues who he wasn't interested in shagging)". This tends to lead to the claim that the OW is half responsible for the affair, she's partially to blame for he affair because she giggled at his jokes and brushed against him at the photocopier etc. It might make some people feel better to tie themselves in knots, but the sad reality is that the married spouse made a series of deliberate choices because an ego boost and some sex on the side was appealing and worth the risk to them.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 19/09/2023 14:13

boromu222 · 19/09/2023 13:58

The vast majority of the affairs of married men involve women. But where they involve men, its just the same.

It doesn't matter if the woman is a predatory man eater or just a woman that doesn't care that he's married. Same same.

Show quote history

At worst, and more commonly ime, they work very hard to attract the attention of, befriend and court the women they end up in affairs with.

This. Why is the OW responsible for saying no to the married man's advances, instead of him being responsible for not making advances in the first place? Why should she care that he's married when he clearly doesn't? Especially if he is claiming to be separated, as is the case on a thread on Pregnancy Choices right now. (and my heart breaks for this OW, it honestly does, I want to rip the man's balls out through his eye sockets for the lies he told her)

TickyTimeBomb · 19/09/2023 14:22

So much predictability in the end, my h's affair started as KISA behaviour, fooled himself he was doing nothing wrong, his behaviour towards me and the family was negligent and then abusive.
I obviously searced for the ow, correct there was one a decade younger, how predictable, she kicked her h out under the veil of him being abusive and from then on her confidence soared.

As women do I searched for her on sm and noticed her posts, and this is what hurts, the very things my h and I were arguing about specific sitiations and actions were being covertly shown in her posts, remarking on things I had said which no one could have known unless my h hadn't been confiding in her.
She revelled in her power over him at the time, her intrests and thoughts seeped into my life, the rediculous pursuits he started, his value's, even language and turns of phrases could have been coming direct from her mouth.

She influenced him, there was no doubt and also his cruelty in what he said and the way he delivered it was as though he had been taking lessons from someone who needed to make me see the errors of my ways for being a suposidly imperfect wife. I knew my h's language and this was different.

My h never saw the sm posts, I showed him, they stopped as he must have told her off, this was cold and calculating her devaluing me through him, his fault for ever knowing her but she knew what she was doing.

Anyway story old as time, affair fizzles out, she gets dumped and is extremely annoyed and upset, realises he was just a cunt as are many men and then decides she would like the h to come back home.

Unfortunatly her behaviour and my h's behaviour was shared to the people I know, I certainly wasn't one for keeping quiet, one of my daughter's friends liked the look of the h who was thrown out and started a fling, he was older than her by 20 years, (she was 30) wined and dined her, he was wealthy.

Now for some reason the ow, was upset that her life didn't just pick up where she had left off, her h, had no reason to be faithful but she went ballistic, accusing all and sundry of trying to percecute her, that it was engineered to ruin her life, when in fact it was just her h who wanted a band aid to the pain he had gone through.

Her posts changed , they were not anymore about, wellness, mindfulnesss strength of women and the beauty of life, they appeared to be about depression, being hurt, rejection and the hate of men, not that anyone gave a shit.

But still posting as though she was the center of the planet.
Stupid woman.

November2024Mummy · 19/09/2023 14:28

LolaSmiles · 19/09/2023 14:10

Seriously though, pp said the OW is responsible for her own actions. How can you disagree with that? And simultaneously claim that the wife/partner owes the OW respect and fairness?
I wouldn't say many people think a betrayed spouse owes the OW/OM respect and fairness. A betrayed spouse has every right to hate the guts of the affair partner. The affair partner has behaved badly and is 100% responsible for their actions.

Where the betrayed spouse becomes unreasonable is where they do mental gymnastics to minimise their spouse's betrayal and that shows in many ways. It shows up in the "everything was great with DH until OW came on the scene", "DH is a good man and had a happy marriage until OW led him astray or turned his head", "DH never intended to have an affair because he loves me, but it's human nature and he has his flaws like we all do so when OW got her claws into him an affair happened", "OW took advantage of how helpful and friendly DH is (even though DH didn't have form for helping out male colleagues and female colleagues who he wasn't interested in shagging)". This tends to lead to the claim that the OW is half responsible for the affair, she's partially to blame for he affair because she giggled at his jokes and brushed against him at the photocopier etc. It might make some people feel better to tie themselves in knots, but the sad reality is that the married spouse made a series of deliberate choices because an ego boost and some sex on the side was appealing and worth the risk to them.

Agree that it's unreasonable for the spouse to wholly blame the affair partner. But the affair partner thinking they 'don't owe anything' is (more) shitty so it balances out.

LolaSmiles · 19/09/2023 14:35

Agree that it's unreasonable for the spouse to wholly blame the affair partner. But the affair partner thinking they 'don't owe anything' is (more) shitty so it balances out.
It depends on what they mean by 'don't owe anything'.
If people are using it to point out that the affair partner hasn't made vows to the betrayed spouse and isn't the one breaking a relationship contract then I'd agree with them. It doesn't matter what any potential affair partner does, the responsibility to the married person's spouse lies with their spouse.

If people are saying the affair partner doesn't owe the betrayed spouse anything as a way to promote an individualistic 'do what you like' version of morality where no behaviour/actions should be challenged then I'd agree with you that it's shitty.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 19/09/2023 14:52

LolaSmiles · 19/09/2023 14:35

Agree that it's unreasonable for the spouse to wholly blame the affair partner. But the affair partner thinking they 'don't owe anything' is (more) shitty so it balances out.
It depends on what they mean by 'don't owe anything'.
If people are using it to point out that the affair partner hasn't made vows to the betrayed spouse and isn't the one breaking a relationship contract then I'd agree with them. It doesn't matter what any potential affair partner does, the responsibility to the married person's spouse lies with their spouse.

If people are saying the affair partner doesn't owe the betrayed spouse anything as a way to promote an individualistic 'do what you like' version of morality where no behaviour/actions should be challenged then I'd agree with you that it's shitty.

The first, not the second.

bingbongbang23 · 19/09/2023 15:15

November2024Mummy · 19/09/2023 11:28

Welp, if you choose to get into a relationship with a taken person, you need to accept the consequences. The only thing you can expect from the aggrieved party, is not to be harassed or subjected to aggression. Whether they hate you or not, whether they forgive their partner, is none of your concern.

After all, they don't owe you anything.

I absolutely agree. My point earlier was that the wife harassed me, my children, my husband, my work.

Quite frankly, I would have been happier had she and her husband reconciled and then she would hopefully have left me alone.

But to this day, all blame is on me and he was a helpless man...

FSTraining · 19/09/2023 16:32

TickyTimeBomb · 19/09/2023 14:22

So much predictability in the end, my h's affair started as KISA behaviour, fooled himself he was doing nothing wrong, his behaviour towards me and the family was negligent and then abusive.
I obviously searced for the ow, correct there was one a decade younger, how predictable, she kicked her h out under the veil of him being abusive and from then on her confidence soared.

As women do I searched for her on sm and noticed her posts, and this is what hurts, the very things my h and I were arguing about specific sitiations and actions were being covertly shown in her posts, remarking on things I had said which no one could have known unless my h hadn't been confiding in her.
She revelled in her power over him at the time, her intrests and thoughts seeped into my life, the rediculous pursuits he started, his value's, even language and turns of phrases could have been coming direct from her mouth.

She influenced him, there was no doubt and also his cruelty in what he said and the way he delivered it was as though he had been taking lessons from someone who needed to make me see the errors of my ways for being a suposidly imperfect wife. I knew my h's language and this was different.

My h never saw the sm posts, I showed him, they stopped as he must have told her off, this was cold and calculating her devaluing me through him, his fault for ever knowing her but she knew what she was doing.

Anyway story old as time, affair fizzles out, she gets dumped and is extremely annoyed and upset, realises he was just a cunt as are many men and then decides she would like the h to come back home.

Unfortunatly her behaviour and my h's behaviour was shared to the people I know, I certainly wasn't one for keeping quiet, one of my daughter's friends liked the look of the h who was thrown out and started a fling, he was older than her by 20 years, (she was 30) wined and dined her, he was wealthy.

Now for some reason the ow, was upset that her life didn't just pick up where she had left off, her h, had no reason to be faithful but she went ballistic, accusing all and sundry of trying to percecute her, that it was engineered to ruin her life, when in fact it was just her h who wanted a band aid to the pain he had gone through.

Her posts changed , they were not anymore about, wellness, mindfulnesss strength of women and the beauty of life, they appeared to be about depression, being hurt, rejection and the hate of men, not that anyone gave a shit.

But still posting as though she was the center of the planet.
Stupid woman.

It's interesting you mention your husband's negligent and then abusive behaviour and then the "veil of abuse" that the OW's husband was forced out of his home. There's a common pattern in which the cheat is the abusive one and I've often noticed that where allegations of abuse come to nothing, the accuser often has a new secret boyfriend.

Original poster
Kingofx · 19/09/2023 17:17

@Saschka

I think a lot of people here haven't experienced infidelity (for which I am glad) but I think your DH "getting off with someone" would hurt you a lot less than your DH lying to you, or forming an emotional bond and intimacy with another woman, which is often the greatest pain of affairs.

I think a lot of people writing here would write quite differently if they'd experienced it. I think they also probably think they have a safe marriage, when genuinely practically nobody does. Practically nobody.

A great deal of it turns out to be circumstances, opportunities, things you're going through. I read a heartbreaking thread here from a woman who had an affair and lost her husband because she'd been going through menopause and become a temporarily different person.

It was so sad reading her post, tinged with so much sadness because she had lost her life for a short period of very, very, very bad judgement. It would have made life a lot easier for all if the OM she'd been involved with had backed off knowing she was married.

I am not blaming the OM, I am saying infidelity is a team sport. So sad that sometimes people can't see that and think about what they are doing before they do it.

OP posts:
Dwappy · 19/09/2023 18:06

Kingofx · 19/09/2023 17:17

@Saschka

I think a lot of people here haven't experienced infidelity (for which I am glad) but I think your DH "getting off with someone" would hurt you a lot less than your DH lying to you, or forming an emotional bond and intimacy with another woman, which is often the greatest pain of affairs.

I think a lot of people writing here would write quite differently if they'd experienced it. I think they also probably think they have a safe marriage, when genuinely practically nobody does. Practically nobody.

A great deal of it turns out to be circumstances, opportunities, things you're going through. I read a heartbreaking thread here from a woman who had an affair and lost her husband because she'd been going through menopause and become a temporarily different person.

It was so sad reading her post, tinged with so much sadness because she had lost her life for a short period of very, very, very bad judgement. It would have made life a lot easier for all if the OM she'd been involved with had backed off knowing she was married.

I am not blaming the OM, I am saying infidelity is a team sport. So sad that sometimes people can't see that and think about what they are doing before they do it.

If someone has an affair due to some sort of temporary mental health issue/breakdown then they are possibly not to blame either. But regardless it still isn't the other man's fault. Unless you say he knew she was having a breakdown of sorts and took advantage of her. But that's a totally different scenario. Same way I wouldn't blame someone who was assaulted while drunk/ asleep if they were married. So there's no point getting into who's to blame when someone isn't competent to make decisions or whatever. When discussing a grown adult who is fully competent it is still the married party who is to blame for their actions in my opinion.

And yes I have been cheated on. Admittedly not by my husband (that I know of) but by a long term (8 years) previous partner. I read their messages as well. She knew he had a long term girlfriend. I still blame him and him alone. She might be a bitch yes. But it's his fault I dumped him. Not hers.

And I definitely do not think I have a safe marriage. I have seen so many friends marriages break up due to affairs. I am well aware no one is safe. Including me. But if I was to cheat, it would be my fault my marriage broke up. And if my husband cheats, it'll be his fault. The OW may be a total bitch for doing it, but it's not her fault.

MsFrost · 19/09/2023 18:13

I am not blaming the OM, I am saying infidelity is a team sport. So sad that sometimes people can't see that and think about what they are doing before they do it.

@Kingofx It takes two to tango of course, but the OW has no commitment to the person being cheated on, and hasn't taken any vows.

It's morally dubious for sure (assuming s/he actually knows the person is married).

But it seems obvious to me that the partner who is actually married or in a monogamous partnership with someone else, is the one who broke a vow/ commitment. They are responsible for their own choice to break that commitment.

I don't really understand how you can really be angry with someone who never made you any promises and has nothing to do with you. If it wasn't them, it would have been someone else. If your partner wants to cheat then they will cheat with someone eventually.

HerMammy · 19/09/2023 18:38

I think so many women are blinkered, my friends DH had an affair; now divorced and with OW; she maintains they were happy and was mystified, they were not happy, they fought constantly and both miserable.
I also find it odd that she vilifies the OW and her DC likewise to the extent all these years later none of the DC will speak to his now long term partner. Men don't accidentally have sex or are led astray, yet women still blame the woman.

November2024Mummy · 19/09/2023 18:46

Men don't accidentally have sex or are led astray, yet women still blame the woman.

Indeed. Both make a choice. Ex wife is within her rights to dislike and blame OW, justified or not. Doesnt mean the ex h is absolved. Ideally, children should be allowed to make up their own mind about the person, though.

boromu222 · 19/09/2023 19:04

MsFrost · 19/09/2023 18:13

I am not blaming the OM, I am saying infidelity is a team sport. So sad that sometimes people can't see that and think about what they are doing before they do it.

@Kingofx It takes two to tango of course, but the OW has no commitment to the person being cheated on, and hasn't taken any vows.

It's morally dubious for sure (assuming s/he actually knows the person is married).

But it seems obvious to me that the partner who is actually married or in a monogamous partnership with someone else, is the one who broke a vow/ commitment. They are responsible for their own choice to break that commitment.

I don't really understand how you can really be angry with someone who never made you any promises and has nothing to do with you. If it wasn't them, it would have been someone else. If your partner wants to cheat then they will cheat with someone eventually.

This is the 4 millionth time someone has said "she didn't break any vows blah blah I don't understand blaming her"

This is a thread specificially about the OW, not the man, who not one person has said is not to blame.

OW has a commitment to herself and the universe to not be a total cunt. Or she should have, at least.

bingbongbang23 · 19/09/2023 19:07

@boromu222 , very harsh language. Not all OW are c*nts as you so politely put it.

I have no disagreement that their actions are wrong. But no two instances are the same, so might be a bit of a generalisation...

OW can also be good people. They can also be awful people.

This is only one thing about them, it doesn't define who they are.

boromu222 · 19/09/2023 19:09

Not all OW are cnts as you so politely put it*

Yeah they are. They are not good people and it does define who they are.

TickyTimeBomb · 19/09/2023 19:15

*This is the 4 millionth time someone has said "she didn't break any vows blah blah I don't understand blaming her"

This is a thread specificially about the OW, not the man, who not one person has said is not to blame.

OW has a commitment to herself and the universe to not be a total cunt. Or she should have, at least.*

So we are in agreement that men are to blame, ow believe 100%, wives believe it is a shared blame.

Would we agree that men on the whole are capable of more extreme abuse to women, physically definitely, emotionally definitetly too because they can say and do as they please without fear of physical abuse.

Men are stronger, and abuse very much happens during affairs, police would back this up that many of the DV call outs are during stressful periods of infedelity behaviour.

Many women will have been subjected to abuse throughout their partner's affair, how any woman could not understand how it can make an innocent woman a victim of abuse is beyond me, you are either stupid, ignorant or highly sadistic in nature.

No matter how much you believe your actions are not contributing to someones pain, sadly you are mistaken.

Affairs are abuse.

bingbongbang23 · 19/09/2023 19:25

boromu222 · 19/09/2023 19:09

Not all OW are cnts as you so politely put it*

Yeah they are. They are not good people and it does define who they are.

I could not disagree with you more.

And I actually feel sorry for you if that's what you believe. The world must be a very negative place if you place such labels and hatred on people you have never even met

namechangnancy · 19/09/2023 19:32

Since my ex cheated on me after the loss of our first child and now married to the ow who is now his wife. I certainly do know what it feels like.

This thread is about is it ok to blame the OW for having a affair with a married man and the impacts that had on his family

No one is implying it's not ok to :

to be angry at the ow - (of course)

Is she partly responsible for her actions in the affair (of course)

To hate her (natural)

But to blame her entirely for the affairs impact, no.

No because there were two people involved in the situation and one had a higher moral** and legal duty to safe guard his family as he was the one who was married, lied repeatedly to his family and had a choice to say no. No matter how you slice it there was no gun to his head. Everyone can have the chance to cheat sure given the right circumstances stances but not everyone does because some people don't want to risk losing their partner. Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I cheated when I was young and stupid because I didn't value the relationship I had and was willing to risk it to be a dickhead. However and I have survived a lot - I wouldn't risk it now because I wouldn't risk my DH because no matter what could be put in front of me, he is what I want.

If men are fallible and human then so are women right (or is only cheating men they are deserving of moments of weakness?) If he was going through a moment - what's to say she wasn't as well ?

The difference being she has nothing to lose by having a affair and the cheating spouse knew what he had to lose and risked it anyway. Knowing the players in the game on a family level - he was the only one who could consent with full knowledge over both camps.

The terms slut, homewrecker and all the really grim terms referring to men being "lured away" are specifically designed to be coded for the man (who just couldn't help himself 🙄) and against the female who is blamed entirely. Even OM on here don't get the same vile comments that the term OW

If you have done so much reading and know so much more about the subject than anyone else. You will know the statistics and your husbands prevalence to do it again. And if you believe it truly was this only one awful women, at that moment who was able to have a affair with your dh. You have drunk the coolaid and I can only imagine how much you will hurt feel if he does it again with another women.

I hope for many peoples sake that's not the case, but frankly it's unlikely.

Bananananananananana · 19/09/2023 19:48

And I actually feel sorry for you if that's what you believe. The world must be a very negative place if you place such labels and hatred on people you have never even met

It doesn't make you evil, but an ow isn't "good"

Being a good person means being virtuous and well rounded, the opposite of engaging in cheating

You can still be funny, loving, generous but you're not a "good" person if you're complicit

I think somebody said affairs are abuse? I may have misunderstood? But I think it is abusive from the husband having seen the it play out

Original poster
Kingofx · 19/09/2023 19:49

@bingbongbang23

And I actually feel sorry for you if that's what you believe. The world must be a very negative place if you place such labels and hatred on people you have never even met

Is your comment targeted at @boromu222 for her opinion about OW. Her opinion, you believe is "hatred".

In perspective, as outlined in my OP, this thread is about OW who target others spouses. Go to some measures to begin an affair, go through the process of doing it, sexual interiors and so on for means of getting pleasure for themselves.

They do this fully aware, they are destroying someone's life. Utterly. And they do it anyway. Because they get pleasure from it.

And that's what you're here defending and calling those who thinks it's... Well... cunty the hateful ones.

What a hill to die on.

OP posts:
bingbongbang23 · 19/09/2023 20:08

Kingofx · 19/09/2023 19:49

@bingbongbang23

And I actually feel sorry for you if that's what you believe. The world must be a very negative place if you place such labels and hatred on people you have never even met

Is your comment targeted at @boromu222 for her opinion about OW. Her opinion, you believe is "hatred".

In perspective, as outlined in my OP, this thread is about OW who target others spouses. Go to some measures to begin an affair, go through the process of doing it, sexual interiors and so on for means of getting pleasure for themselves.

They do this fully aware, they are destroying someone's life. Utterly. And they do it anyway. Because they get pleasure from it.

And that's what you're here defending and calling those who thinks it's... Well... cunty the hateful ones.

What a hill to die on.

Yes, women who target others. I agree. No need for it, and awful behaviour.

However to say all OW are c*nts. No, I don't agree. Every affair has an individual set of circumstances. To blanket say everyone who has been an OW is a cunt is frankly messed up thinking.

Awful behaviour, yes. But to take to that extreme in every case. Something is warped with the thinking

MsFrost · 19/09/2023 20:09

OW has a commitment to herself and the universe to not be a total cunt. Or she should have, at least.

@boromu222 She doesn't owe anyone anything. The blame for the breakdown of a relationship rests with the person who is in the relationship.

bingbongbang23 · 19/09/2023 20:11

Bananananananananana · 19/09/2023 19:48

And I actually feel sorry for you if that's what you believe. The world must be a very negative place if you place such labels and hatred on people you have never even met

It doesn't make you evil, but an ow isn't "good"

Being a good person means being virtuous and well rounded, the opposite of engaging in cheating

You can still be funny, loving, generous but you're not a "good" person if you're complicit

I think somebody said affairs are abuse? I may have misunderstood? But I think it is abusive from the husband having seen the it play out

Again, I would probably agree for the vast majority

But I have known a very good woman who was an OW. Her marriage was simply awful. Her husband raped her, belittled her and made her feel utter crap. She was beyond broken. The affair partner showed her some compassion and interest. Logical hat would say to steer clear, but this person wasn't thinking logically, she was a mess.

So no, I don't think she is a bad person. Her core is good. BUT she was the OW...

My point is that we should not put a blanket term on these woman without knowing circumstances (although I do appreciate that above is the exception and not the norm)

boromu222 · 19/09/2023 20:16

bingbongbang23 · 19/09/2023 19:25

I could not disagree with you more.

And I actually feel sorry for you if that's what you believe. The world must be a very negative place if you place such labels and hatred on people you have never even met

Show quote history

Where did I say hatred, at all? Please point it out?

It's not a negative place, at all. None of the women I know well enough to know would ever think of dallying with a married man. Those that do are cunts. It's not my negativity, its theirs.
The world must be a very negative place for women who get with married men. And for the men. But my only sympathy is for the mens wives.

OW, and the men they fuck, are cunts. End of story. It's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint shared by a lot of people.