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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to flex the truth on how long we've been trying

243 replies

mariannaf · 16/09/2023 14:36

The older you get the longer, on average, for the average person, it should take to conceive, right? So why is it that couples over 35 have to wait a shorter amount of time before the docs will seriously consider helping them?

Let's say 2 couples have been trying for 6 months. One couple is 40 years old and the other is 25 years old. At 25yrs the average couple who are healthy would (probably) conceive before 6months and the fact that they haven't might indicate that there's an issue. Whereas at 40 the average may be above 6 months, and certainly longer average time at 40 than at 25, so the fact they haven't might mean they haven't been trying long enough. So why would the docs be willing to help the 40y.o but not 25y.o?

The reason I'm asking all this - we've been trying 5mo and so far no luck. We would be going via the private route anyway whether we go after 12 months or now, so is it worth flexing the truth a little and going to a private fertility clinic already for IVF or other treatments? I feel like even at private clinics, when we are happy to pay and not use NHS funds, they would stick with the 6mo vs 12mo rule because it is policy. We are 29 (me) and 34 (him). We've done sperm testing - he has borderline low sperm motility (29%) and borderline low sperm morphology (3%). We've also checked my uterus, fallopian tubes, done hormone testing on me - all fine. He is taking supplements

OP posts:
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Unwisebutnotillegal · 17/09/2023 08:13

Yep my friend ended on Intensive Care when she tried IVF so if you can avoid it at all costs. You’re young enough to do the 2 years trying without worrying about birth defects and miscarriages (well as much as is possible).
I’d echo other people recommending therapy before you continue trying, you are clearly mentally exhausted already and you still pregnancy and parenthood ahead of you both of which are extremely mentally draining.
I had 3 nearly 4 years of secondary infertility and know how obsessive one can get.

Incywincywoo · 17/09/2023 08:17

sparklefresh · 17/09/2023 07:13

This sounds obsessive.

Inclined to agree, this is mad.

You ttc at the optimum time fair enough.

Then you get on with life.

You test if you have signs of pregnancy; missed period, or earlier you can get a bloated feeling all over, funny sort of Dc in paints, raised temperature - you feel different.

You don’t test because it’s Tuesday! What a waste of time and money.

IheartNiles · 17/09/2023 08:18

Aside from all the things (cost, gruelling, you still having a very good chance of conceiving naturally) people have said about not rushing into IVF on this thread, I’d like to add another.

Natural selection is much lower with IVF than with unassisted conception.

Livingoncaffeine · 17/09/2023 08:19

Agree with others five months is nothing. It’s very normal for it to take up to a year to conceive - or longer - no matter what age. Some people get lucky first time or early on, many many others don’t. Five months in you should still be enjoying the fun of trying, not getting this stressed and contemplating IVF.

FWIW it took 13 months to conceive DC1 and 11 months to conceive DC2. Both in our 30s, DH has lower morphology than yours (at least he did the first time around, didn’t retest the second).

BeardieWeirdie · 17/09/2023 08:22

My husband has a very low sperm count and they are all the wrong shape. It took four years and three years to conceive our children, with a miscarriage in the first wait, when I was 28 and 34. I know it must feel like it’s been a long time already but five months is nothing, even for a couple with no fertility issues. Save your money for your future baby’s university fund.

mariannaf · 17/09/2023 08:22

BertieBotts · 17/09/2023 08:05

Hang on - I think you've misunderstood what those time spans are for.

It's usually 12 months under 35 / 6 months over 35 - this is to trigger an investigation into what's going wrong. Because you can't just run fertility tests on every member of the population who is impatient because they didn't get pregnant the first couple of months of trying, so there has to be some kind of criteria to meet first.

But that's not your situation, you already know that your DH has low sperm motility and morphology. So if I understand correctly, you should be able to access an appointment to discuss options (even if you are not advised to go straight to IVF). That's not what the 6/12 month wait is for.

But to answer your original question:

The reason you get longer to try when you're younger is that assuming totally normal fertility, you only have about a 20% chance of conception per cycle, so it's normal for it to take a bit of time/a few attempts to conceive - the average is about 3-4 months (4 months is when it tips over to more than 50% chance). After 6 months you're at 74% (roughly) chance of pregnancy, but 11 months is the 91st centile, which is probably just rounded up to 12 for ease. So for 1 in 4 couples, even though they aren't pregnant by the 6th month it doesn't mean that they WON'T get pregnant, it just means that they have to wait a little bit longer. There is some quite significant randomness - you know when you're playing a board game and you really really NEED to roll a 6 but sometimes it can seem to be ages and so many turns before you get one? And then some lucky bugger on the other side of the board keeps rolling 6s and they don't even need one. It's kind of exactly like that - 1/6 isn't far off the probability of conceiving and then not miscarrying.

At 5 months trying, assuming normal fertility there's only about a 67% chance you'll have conceived. So for 1 in every 3 couples it takes longer than 5 months. That's very common - you are likely just in that 1 in 3 (or 3 of 10) and 2 out of those 3-in-10 will have conceived naturally by 11 months.

If you're younger, you HAVE time to wait and you can afford to say OK let's just try a bit longer, it is quite likely that we've had a crap roll of the dice. (And even up to 12 months doesn't necessarily mean that something is wrong, but it does mean you've been trying for longer than most people have to try, so it's absolutely worth investigating.)

If you're older, you MIGHT not have as much time to wait, the referral, waiting time, process of doing all the tests on both partners, waiting for results, appointment to discuss results, then yet more trying with whatever method is suggested, first pregnancy might not be successful and may need to try again - this all takes time, and in the meantime, you're both getting older. So they kickstart the process after a shorter period of time, even though there's still a chance nothing is wrong, because you DON'T have loads of time to just wait around trying naturally, and also because of age there is an increased chance of issues anyway so the bar is lower to check.

Someone in their 20s or early 30s does have time on their side. I would ask about the possibility of an NHS appointment to discuss the results you've had (if you haven't had that already) but in the meantime, keep trying, because it's really not that unlikely that the odds will come up for you at some point. And if you have a condition where the result is that it's possible, but less likely, then actually one way to handle that is just to give it more time. This has the benefits of avoiding all the invasive, painful, and risky parts of IVF as well. My DH has a chromosome translocation, which basically causes genetic defects but these can occur at various stages of development depending on where the break in the chromosome is - for us it seems to cause it so early that I either miscarry or the embryo never implants, which IMO is the easiest version of this to cope with. (As we have been lucky not to have to cope with TFMR, later miscarriages, PGD IVF, difficult decisions.) It took us about 15 months to conceive DS2 and then after he was born we decided not to use any contraception and DS3 came along exactly three years later. (DS1 has a different dad.) Some people use IVF with our condition but we felt that we were lucky to be able to just wait and see.

And BTW, worrying or not isn't going to make your DH's sperm swim any differently, so worry away (or at least, don't beat yourself up/worry about worrying!!)

To go back to the stats/probability - I found this reassuring, it isn't for everyone -

If for example you had half the chances of a couple with totally normal fertility, then you still hit over 50% chance by month 7, 75% chance by month 14. And if your DH's sperm count is only borderline for investigation then you probably don't have half the chances, it's probably somewhere higher than this.

But essentially what I'm saying is that the fact you've been trying for 5 months with no results is not yet a reason to stress or automatically assume that it will never happen. It is likely that you just need more attempts. Think about playing that board game where you're really really desperate for a 6. It usually arrives in the end!

Lastly (totally unstatistical, unscientific advice) - try a cock ring. It's meant to make the ejaculation stronger so it shoots further. Could have been total coincidence, and apologies because this is TMI, but it worked for us with DS2.

Good luck!

Thank you so so much for this. This actually gave me some hope 🙏🏼

OP posts:
depressionpitofdoom · 17/09/2023 08:23

5 months really isn't that long, there may be nothing wrong. A woman in her 40's is far more likely to have issues such as low egg reserve, and a higher chance of complications such as pre-eclampsia, disabilities in the child and also conceiving twins which is a risk anyway with IVF all of which make her much higher risk, she's also on a very limited time frame so 6 months is a long time for that woman. A woman in her late 20's is perhaps slightly less fertile than she was in her early 20's but it's negligible and 6 months isn't necessarily an indicator of a problem.

It's horrible when your trying and it's not happening immediately, it really is and I do feel for you but there are very good reasons that an older couple is deemed a priority in these cases.

Illbebythesea · 17/09/2023 08:23

Missing the point here, but if you were going to go for treatment wouldn’t IUI be a cheaper/easier route first? Especially if your DH’s sperm is the suspected problem. I do also agree though 5 months is not long at all & you could easily get pregnant within the next 7 months and fall within the perfectly normal range.

ThanksItHasPockets · 17/09/2023 08:26

If you are a Type-A personality who is used to having a high level of control over your health and wider life then fertility issues are often the first experience you might have of a really huge thing that is largely beyond your control. Five months is not long. IVF is not a guarantee and the long-term effects on women’s health are poorly researched. Do not lie to access an invasive treatment. Everyone I know who has had IVF would have avoided it if they possibly could and in retrospect would recommend it to others only as a last resort.

There is a whole fertility industry which is only
too happy to take your money in return for the illusion of control if you want to take that path. It only delays the inevitable realisation of how little control we ultimately have.

Thoughtful2355 · 17/09/2023 08:29

I tried for 2 years and nothing.

gave up started eating healthy for 6 months, lost a little bit of weight and suprisingly got pregnant. then a month after my son was born, i got pregnant again. i now have 2 kids. Bodies are just wierd

AnneValentine · 17/09/2023 08:31

mariannaf · 16/09/2023 14:41

@brightdayloomingdark so given that the older couple would be advised to seek help after 6mo, should I be doing the same? Given that I'm younger and if it's 'a long time' for them, then a younger and hopefully more fertile person at 29 would be expected to conceive by 5-6mo? Ie would it indicate a problem if we haven't and should we get going with IVF rather than wait?

It’s because the older couple are more likely to actually have significantly difficulties and things actually causing the issue.

Also it’s not 6 months.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/infertility/

nhs.uk

Infertility

Find out about infertility, including the causes, treatment options, and when to get help and advice.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/infertility/

MummyJ36 · 17/09/2023 08:32

OP I would hesitate going down the IVF route before you really really need to. I’ve seen the incredible strain it puts on individuals and couples. Second time around it took DH and I 8 months to conceive and that felt like an eternity but it really wasn’t! If you were both in your 40s I’d say don’t delay and tell a white lie but at your ages I really would give it another 6 months.

PastelLilac · 17/09/2023 08:32

Why would you want to go for ivf when there's nothing wrong with you? It's incredibly invasive and expensive. How do you track ovulation? Many women rely on apps so that's why they don't fall pregnant. Just try for another 5-6 months. Try tracking your bbt first thing every morning for a few cycles and seeing how long your luteal phase is. Some women have shorter or longer LPs and miss having sex during their fertile window.

queenatom · 17/09/2023 08:33

It took us 10 months to conceive in our early 30s. At the time it felt like a lifetime and I definitely got very anxious and started spiraling because it felt like everyone else I know conceived the second they decided they wanted a baby, but the reality is that the time it took us was completely within the boundaries of what is 'normal'.

Its easy to get in your head and start thinking that it's never going to happen and if you're going to need help at some point then why not just do it now and cut down the wait, but IVF is a very expensive, painful, stressful way to achieve a lower chance of conceiving within a year than just keeping trying naturally. Looking at general statistics, you have a 90% chance of conceiving in the first year of trying vs a 32% success rate per embryo transfer for under 35s, assuming you get any embryos, and let's say if you start right now that you might get 2 transfers in max before you hit the year mark (that's probably optimistic). You've had testing that suggests you've got a normal egg reserve so not running down the clock there, which is the primary reason older couples are advised to move to IVF sooner. You can afford to wait out the year - yes, that 90% figure includes a bunch of people who conceive in the first month or two, but it also includes plenty (like me) who needed the second half of the year to get there.

User1789 · 17/09/2023 08:35

OP, I get it, I really do. I wonder if the very sex-negative sex education our generation received, along with very little, borderline inaccurate fertility education has had an impact our mental wellbeing when trying to conceive?

I know it only took a few months for us to conceive, but we, my DH in particular, found the whole thing incredibly stressful. On the one hand he found having 'unprotected sex' a taboo he couldn't quite get over, and secondly we really did want to have a baby and had wanted to start trying for a while, so it was upsetting when my period kept on turning up.

Throw in a condition which could, but also might not, affect fertility and the only way we could find out... was to try.

Throw in a regime of folic acid, vitamin D, zinc, cycle tracking, ovulation sticks, lower alcohol consumption, higher vegetable consumption and some exercise, and of course, regular baby-making sex in which we BOTH HAD TO ORGASM, and nobody had much fun.

The sacrifice of an enjoyable sex life to trying to make a baby is not something people really talk about much. There was a thread on the conception thread about difficulties around baby-making sex recently which didn't get any replies.

The relief when I did conceive was palpable, despite us arguably not trying for that long.

However, I am pleased we didn't go whinging to anybody else about how stressful we found the whole thing, as even through our impatience we knew that there were people with very real fertility problems, and we would sound like insensitive twats. So we just whinged to each other and got on with it.

If you want the 'golden ticket' answer, I got drunk = baby 9m later. But I would never say that to somebody having fertility issues IRL.

Superstorefan123 · 17/09/2023 08:36

OP I completely understand the desperation to get pregnant as soon as possible - every month feels so painfully long! I also wrongly assumed IVF would be the quickest route to a family (we started after 12 plus months and a sad diagnosis that it was impossible for us to conceive naturally). However, that unfortunately isn’t the case. You can’t try naturally during treatment and during 5 months of testing/treatment we’ve only had one ‘go’ (eg transfer) compared to the 5 you’d have naturally. Each go has a minimal chance of success. With no diagnosed issues you’ll probably genuinely have better odds trying naturally.

Calmdown14 · 17/09/2023 08:37

Were you on any kind of birth control prior to trying?

Most people I know took over the year, myself included.

Perhaps given how stressed you are about it, it would be a good idea to book in for private fertility in six months time.

There is certainly a psychological (probably leading physical) side of conception. You laughed off the get drunk suggestion but it's not actually a terrible idea (a couple of times, not suggesting every night!).

I have several friends with 'Ibiza babies ' who tried for months then decided to have time off and went on holiday and stopped actively trying then boom.
Similarly those who had been trying (in one case a decade) who wanted to punch the IVF specialist who said 'you might now find between appointments it just happens '. She raved and ranted about him then guess what.

Stop so actively trying for a bit. Stop checking everything. Live like a 20 something. I appreciate this sounds patronising but you do have time on your side.

Make your back up plans so you know there is an option in place then try and relax a bit about it.

sasham84 · 17/09/2023 08:40

My parter and I tried for a couple of years. We are on the "older side" and I get how frustrating it can be. I used an ovucore and on the 12th cycle of using it fell pregnant. Its great for tracking and can be a useful tool for the consultant. Our case wasn't so straightforward as we had had several losses along the way. We were told on average most couples will conceive within a year... it might just feel like the longest, hardest year of your life. X

Lexibug · 17/09/2023 08:43

I was told whilst going through fertility treatments that if everything is perfect reproductively you have a 20% chance of conceiving on any given cycle. Which is actually quite low when you think about it. Our fertility doctor said to have sex every other day and not to worry about ovulation tests etc, as this gave the best chance of some sperm being around at the right time.

fairyfluf · 17/09/2023 08:43

Because IVF is something to avoid not something to rush into if time is on your side. It can be brutal.

Try for a year as advised. The sticks with the flashing smiley faces might be useful.

Carlotta27 · 17/09/2023 08:46

@mariannaf I just want to come on and say I get that this is frustrating and I understand where you’re coming from. You might be someone like me who has been able to easily “achieve” everything else in their life with a bit of effort. Now you want a baby and it’s clear you’re doing all the “right” things yet you’re not achieving what you do want! So in yet why you’re worried and I see that your thoughts of IVF are coming from a place of wanting to be proactive, so hope you don’t feel too alone and misunderstood.

However, it’s still very likely that you can concieve naturally and you just haven’t had your lucky month yet. It’s a bit like rolling a 6 on a die - some people get a 6 first go and other take longer.

As someone who is about to start IVF for known fertility problems, the emotional toll it’s taking on my relationship and invasive nature of treatment is not something to be taken lightly. I’d much rather be riding the rollercoaster of monthly trying than what could be quite a long and painful road and no guarantee of a live baby at the end.

I’d say give it a year and perhaps join some TTC boards or groups where you can join other women who are equally frustrated at not being pregnant yet x

Incognito2023 · 17/09/2023 08:49

Just adding my voice to those who are saying try to relax, don’t panic about the time because you are still so young. Don’t underestimate the effect that stress plays on the female body being ready to conceive – even though you are aware that it is potentially a male problem on your side

However I do agree with the comment above “don’t beat yourself up for worrying…”
And I hear you OP when you say that you can’t help being stressed (of course not) and it’s good you’re asking for tips to relax.

I suggest researching that topic specifically – and definitely consider meditation, massage, music… etc
BUT ime you cannot replace a specific ‘worry’ with a ‘void/nothing’ and a chilled state of mind.
I believe the best thing is to find another project, or something to distract you. Obviously I appreciate there will not be anything else that is this important to you but it is worth a try?

Anecdotally, I just counted up 4 couples (that I am aware of) who were TTC and becoming anxious when it took longer than hoped… both 1st and subsequent babies.
They ended up conceiving
1/ after deciding to adopt - and actually getting started on process
2/ when wife decided to take new job
3/ couple started a new business together - that they had originally intended to do in future (so simultaneous pregnancy wasn’t great timing!)
4/ sadly when close family bereavement took lots of time and energy

Other friends have taken up new hobbies etc to help relax and take mind off TTC. I remain convinced that distracting yourself with ‘life’ and letting nature just take her time is in your best interests
Whatever you do, good luck

Edited to say:- My personal belief on the anecdotes where getting drunk has worked is it is because both people are more relaxed/less stressed. Again, this is generally not to be recommended, but I believe bears out the theory that being stressed and having pressure to perform/orgasm can make a difference

tillylula · 17/09/2023 08:50

I was 24 and it took us 10 months and a miscarriage... then for 2nd I recon it took 6 months of not avoiding but not trying. I was 26. Both healthy!
I'd wait until over a year.
I now have a 3rd after avoiding eachother like the plague except one time I forgot I was ovulating 🤦‍♀️🤣

PenguinPete · 17/09/2023 08:53

Because it doesn't take a young fertile person 6 months. You have a 18.9% chance at any given month.

Viviennemary · 17/09/2023 08:54

KrisAkabusi · 16/09/2023 14:43

I don't think trying for five months is very long to be honest.

I absolutely agree with this.,it would be unwise to start on fertility treatment after this short time at your age.