Is it acceptable for a teacher to punish a child by making them stand facing the wall?

[twokidstwowheels]

Some context: I'm in France. Schools here are about 30 years behind the UK, however, there are rules (that many teachers just ignore) about what they are/are not allowed to do. Because I'm not in the UK I would really like some perspective on what is and isn't acceptable. French parents went through a harsh system themselves and because of that seem very blasé about any form of discipline that isn't obviously violent!

Anyway, my son is in a mixed class with ages from 5-8, 13 in total. School started two weeks ago and my son told me that in that time he and two others have had to stand facing the wall as a punishment. My son is confused about why but his friend told his mum that it was because DS kept answering questions without putting his hand up, which I can imagine being the case: he struggles not to blurt out his thoughts at the best of times. Another 7-year-old has had to stand there twice, my DS says for fidgeting and "being naughty" along with one of the girls in the class. Is this acceptable in UK schools? AIBU to want to take this up with the head and the mayor (mayors are the ultimate heads of the school here)?

It’s not though is it. The people at university who went through all the coddling and it’s the taking part nonsense are failing and falling apart! They cannot cope with life.

I know every parent thinks their child is an angel but in reality that is simply not true.

Does he not understand what he did wrong because he wasn’t listening? Quite common in that age group.

How do you feel he should have been punished?

Parents these days don’t seem to think their little darlings ever need to be punished. Not met a perfect child yet. They need boundaries and if those are broken, they need consequences.

As the teacher, how would you deal with disruptive children?

This was the norm at my prep school in the late 90s - don’t think it was overly harmful! Though the (13 year old) prefects could do it to the other kids as well as the teachers !!

I just wanted to add to my earlier reply - once you've clarified with the teacher what the punishment was for / what the expectations are for classroom behaviour, assuming it was for something it's reasonable to 'get in trouble' for and the teacher is a reasonable sort, you should make sure when you're explaining to your son why he got punished, that you also reassure him about things that he won't get in trouble for e.g. if he at the moment thinks he'll get in trouble for things he can't control e.g. coughing that will also be creating anxiety so he needs to know that it's ok to cough. Or that it's ok to not understand something and ask a question but make sure he understands how to do that appropriately - e.g. by raising his hand.

(And if the teacher is punishing unreasonably that's then the point to go to the headteacher to discuss it)

It does not sound progressive. I think they did in UK schools in the 70s as I was facing a wall when my mother picked me up from nursery once. They also used to rip up your pictures if you didn't have pockets in your dress to take them home. 😭

I had to stand against the wall in the late 80s. One time was justified - I knew I'd broken the rules and taught me a valuable lesson re peer pressure. I never did it again. The second time I was innocent of the alleged crime and I remembered fuming over the injustice.

Personally I don't have a problem with standing against the wall as a punishment per se, but in your son's case it seems like he didn't actually know what he was being punished for. I'd have an issue with that.

I have done it, as a child, no it wasn't awful

This was normal at my school, as well as getting ‘sent out’.

I get that it isn’t pleasant to have to do it, but it isn’t pleasant to be disruptive and disregarding of others either (assuming a child is actually being disruptive). Yes, it’s humiliating and I can still feel my face stinging with the embarrassment when it happened to me. But life is full of unpleasant feelings and people have to learn to deal with them at some point.

I am allowed to talk about my experience at the hands of an idiot. It may not be damaging to you but it was for me.

Are you telling me that you personally would do this to a five year old?

For those who don’t understand why some of us think this is not the mild punishment it seems to you here is a loose analogy.

We recognise violence as DV but we also recognise that there is coercive control which can take many subtle and (from the outside) benign forms.

you know what, you lot do you: “toughen” your kids up in your own way and leave others to discipline their children in a way that sits well with their conscience.

standing facing the wall is a draconian punishment hundreds of years old and has no place in contemporary society.

I was a language assistant in a few French primaries in 2001 and I was horrified by the "discipline". You're right that stuff is accepted there that just isn't here. Teachers grabbing small children by the scruff of the neck and manhandling them, yelling in their face etc. Standing in the corner seems relatively mild compared to that.

Meh, I can't get worked up about it? How is that humiliating or embarrassing?

OP I 'm not sure why you are asking the question. The type of punishment you describe is not common in the UK but in a small village school in France they obviously do things differently
If you speak to the teacher concerned and are then able to help your DS through this, especially if he might have ADHD , that is your solution.

As a general thing without taking individual circumstances into account, this doesn't seem remotely abusive to me - but then I grew up when it was perfectly acceptable for a primary school teacher to smack the hand of an inattentive small child. I also wonder what types of discipline parents would support because the reality is - according to my nieces who teach in a primary school - that the continual low level misbehaviour of a couple of or even one child disrupts the learning of the whole class. I do appreciate though that individual needs, any SEN or school refusal need to be accounted for and hopefully different strategies adopted. I do wonder what these might be though!

Spanish schools are exactly the same. My niece goes to a public primary in school and the teacher very often picks up work and rips it up. They are 7!

I see nothing wrong with it.

It happens at my school. I don't think it's harmful to face a wall.

That was said in my primary school in the 70s too. If someone was standing in the corner and looked round the teacher would say "Turn round, I don't want to see your ugly face!" Maybe it was taught at teacher training college back then! 😀Definitely wouldn't fly now. There was smacking too. Glad we've moved on from that.

We were made to stand facing a wall at school as punishment back in the 90s, along with lines in the basement (it was boarding school). I have nothing but hate for that school and the fact it destroyed a happy, carefree child.

It isn’t something I’d be worked up about. Your son shouldn’t be interrupting the class.

I certainly wouldn’t go to the mayor or head teacher but if you were concerned I would suggest a conversation with the teacher to understand what he did wrong from their point of view, and how you can help him avoid doing it again.

I wonder if we were at the same primary school!

How is facing a wall humiliating? Do you have to take your pants off?

I seriously worry about how young people are going to cope when their parents are pushing the idea that facing a wall is in any way traumatic. It makes perfect sense. You stop hear the lesson. You don't get to engage so it's a kind of time out t without the problem of missing part of the lesson. Is it the standing? The wall? What part is humiliating? Is time-out humiliating?

The French don’t believe in neurodiversity. Just like the British don’t believe in ‘les jambes lourdes’ or ‘colpo d’aria’. It’s cultural.

I remember 'facing the wall' as a punishment when I was very, very young. Can't remember what I did, but I did manage to get through my 60s/70s education without suffering the various 'more severe' punishments on offer such as the slipper, strap, etc, though I did get plenty of detentions.

How the bloody hell is a dc 'facing the wall' possibly considered bad?

I know there's a serious point there but that did make me laugh! The deathly effects of blasts of cold air are very well-known across the channel (France and Spain too). We are curiously immune over here.