Is it acceptable for a teacher to punish a child by making them stand facing the wall?

[twokidstwowheels]

Some context: I'm in France. Schools here are about 30 years behind the UK, however, there are rules (that many teachers just ignore) about what they are/are not allowed to do. Because I'm not in the UK I would really like some perspective on what is and isn't acceptable. French parents went through a harsh system themselves and because of that seem very blasé about any form of discipline that isn't obviously violent!

Anyway, my son is in a mixed class with ages from 5-8, 13 in total. School started two weeks ago and my son told me that in that time he and two others have had to stand facing the wall as a punishment. My son is confused about why but his friend told his mum that it was because DS kept answering questions without putting his hand up, which I can imagine being the case: he struggles not to blurt out his thoughts at the best of times. Another 7-year-old has had to stand there twice, my DS says for fidgeting and "being naughty" along with one of the girls in the class. Is this acceptable in UK schools? AIBU to want to take this up with the head and the mayor (mayors are the ultimate heads of the school here)?

Triggered standing by a wall? I mean I'd be annoyed if he was being punished in lesson time, but if he's disruptive he needs to learn that isn't acceptable. It is an outdated punishment, I've had to stand facing the wall during playtime for being disruptive, but I wasn't removed during class time. I'd be annoyed he was missing school time but not that he was punished. Sounds like he's treated like a delicate flower so its not surprising he thinks the rules don't apply to him, I don't think you are helping him. Do you complain everytime he's told off?

I've skipped from the first post being quoted to this one but completely agree. It's humiliating.

Standing facing a wall is not a trauma. I don’t think you are doing him any favours by suggesting that it is.

I remember this being a thing when I was primary school aged so the mid 90s. I spent many hours staring at the walls as some weird form of punishment whenever I misbehave in school. Didn't realise this was still a thing. Ridiculous.

Honestly this is very standard behaviour in French schools who do take a different approach to discipline to Uk and Irish schools. I'm not sure there is much to be gained by marching in and asking she adopt English rules .
In schools where space and resources are a issue. This is a way of removing child from situation while ensuring they are safe ( not on their own in the corridors) .
I don't know what happened in his previous school but you claim the teacher there traumatised him which is definitely very unusual and now a week in you believe he is on the road to being traumatised again. Respectfully I'd suggest that the French education system isn't for you .

Not sure I see the issue. The UK is maybe "ahead" or maybe just has other ideas about education and discipline. Can't say the results are great, so who knows what's right.

Of course it is, it’s a degrading form of punishment that is intended to degrade and humiliate

To be honest I’m sick of bad behaviour or even just disruptive/disrespectful behaviour being permitted to slide at my DCs primary school. I’d welcome a face the wall punishment if it improved behaviour.

what sort of adults are these children going to be with so little resilience?

I agree with this, and also - it doesn't matter if it is acceptable in the UK, your child is not going to school in the UK.

Exactly. Absolute fannies.

Fuck me some parents are such drama queens. Standing looking at a wall is not abuse, trauma or worse than corporal punishment! What on earth am I reading.
Some parents clearly just don’t give a shit if their kids mess about in schools or not.

Perhaps France is not the place then for your son to be educated - sounds like you may want to seriously consider a move.

I thought you were going to say they were hitting him.

We had this at prep school, my DC has it at catholic school.

It’s rarely needed once they get the hang of appropriate ways of behaving and proves a useful deterrent.

My DC is SEN too but I am not averse to discipline if being a twerp - usually the teacher can tell if an adhd issue or a little kid misbehaving issue, they are trained.

By contrast other kids we‘ve come across don’t have as nice manners and have bad language and so forth. I’d rather have the wall than that, though it does make me think of the handmaids tale and GOT 😂

This isn’t uncommon in France. There are very different approaches to discipline/class management. Does the school have a behaviour policy?

I think a pp who also grew up in the French system is right that it's a bit offensive to say the French system is '30 years behind'. French schools are super strict in some ways but on the other hand they don't have the weird prison camp mentality of many UK schools nowadays- kids are freer to be themselves in lots of ways. No uniform, no silent corridors, no whole day isolation for minor misdemeanours or stopping kids from going to the loo. I sometimes think that our treading on eggshells culture, with kids seen as psychologically fragile, ends up with worse outcomes - behaviour is worse, which then leads to the need for harsher collective discipline policies that impact all kids, not just the misbehaving ones.

Also, notwithstanding this, I think UK schools are stricter than some seem to believe on here. Many of them do use shame-based techniques! It's just not as widespread societally as in France, where kids expect it both at home and at school.

It's not acceptable here and from your post it's also not permitted in France so you are on strong grounds.

I would go and talk to his teacher and explain the situation. Ask that an alternative is implemented but check what that is going to be and if you have suggestions that you could also implement at home, you should make them.

If you get a non committal response or it happens again, escalate.

I wouldn't consider standing facing a wall "harsh discipline" - sure its unpleasant but how long are we talking, a few minutes? Consequences like this stem from a recognition that sometimes removing stimulation can help kids calm down & reflect.

Its probably not in vogue any more in the UK but definitely has been in the past, it was done at my school 30 years ago, the secondary equivalent would have involved holding a chair out!

Interrupting/not putting your hand up wouldn't be tolerated in the UK either - I just asked my y2 DC and said you'd get told off if you were interrupting in class.

That certainly wouldn't happen at my GCs primary school. It's didn't even happen at my DCs school in the 90s.
I would say yes it is unacceptable

It is absolutely used here - my own kids' state primary does! Are you absolutely sure yours doesn't?

I can imagine the reaction of my mayor to being ‘approached ‘ over this. He would probably have asked us as the token English people in the Commune whether we thought this lady was ‘serious’.

Then we would all have had a glass of Rosé and a bit of a chuckle.

Are you intending to live in France for a long time?

Never saw this happen in my primary schools in the 80s. I think I would have felt awful for any child I saw doing it. And I would have felt embarrassed and really vulnerable with my back to the whole class. The element of humiliation is intrinsic to it as a punishment. It's as much about humiliation as any time to reflect and that is what makes it distressing to me.

Completely normal in the 1980s along with lines, but no, not in tune with modern educational thinking in the UK. If you're in France and it's still the norm there, not really sure what you can do to challenge it though.

It's humiliating.

The humiliation/shame stems from your behaviour being bad.

A child should feel ashamed of being badly behaved. Not feeling ashamed would mean, rather like a toddler, that they aren't recognising that the behaviour is not acceptable, which is itself worrying in a school aged child.

Not tolerated in the UK but we have huge discipline problems here so maybe we should bring it back!