Is it acceptable for a teacher to punish a child by making them stand facing the wall?

[twokidstwowheels]

Some context: I'm in France. Schools here are about 30 years behind the UK, however, there are rules (that many teachers just ignore) about what they are/are not allowed to do. Because I'm not in the UK I would really like some perspective on what is and isn't acceptable. French parents went through a harsh system themselves and because of that seem very blasé about any form of discipline that isn't obviously violent!

Anyway, my son is in a mixed class with ages from 5-8, 13 in total. School started two weeks ago and my son told me that in that time he and two others have had to stand facing the wall as a punishment. My son is confused about why but his friend told his mum that it was because DS kept answering questions without putting his hand up, which I can imagine being the case: he struggles not to blurt out his thoughts at the best of times. Another 7-year-old has had to stand there twice, my DS says for fidgeting and "being naughty" along with one of the girls in the class. Is this acceptable in UK schools? AIBU to want to take this up with the head and the mayor (mayors are the ultimate heads of the school here)?

It's also why French children are better behaved than the UK.

It’s not acceptable in UK schools, but I’m honestly not sure why that matters, unless you plan to come back to the UK. My sister teaches in France and the whole system is vastly different - you’re not going to change that.

It definitely would and does happen in the UK. Sometimes children need to be removed from the situation and there's nowhere for them to go where supervised. Standing and facing away from others is hardly harming them. If they can't sit at the table, join in and be generally considerate of others after reminders, warnings and cajoling, then for the wellbeing of everyone, sometimes disruptions have to be taken away.

They used to do that in my primary school. I thought they still did this.

As a mother of 3 i am not a pushover when it comes to 'bad' behaviour but i think this is unacceptable.
As a very young child i was punished this way at a pre school play group run by an absolute tyrant of a woman , she would not have got away with her behaviour today.
I clearly remember being made to stand in a corner facing the wall ,i remember the smell of a big wooden cupboard that was nearby , i remember feeling fear and humiliation and not knowing what to do.
I don't think i was a badly behaved child so i assume it was probably for something fairly trivial ,the punishments this woman dished out are clear in my mind over 50 years later.
So i don't think you are being unreasonable ,of course negative behaviour needs addressing but no adult should treat a child like that.

I remember having to do this in school in the 80s. Wouldn’t be acceptable in the Uk nowadays but I assume different rules in France.

How is kicking a child out of the classroom entirely any less "humiliating"?

Surely by its very nature any punishment is going to provoke negative emotions - even if it's just disappointment at making a mistake - they're an unavoidable and necessary part of human experience.

If you are going to punish a child then they should
know why they are being punished so that they can reflect on the behaviour that led to the punishment.

I hope that you get some answers from people in France but they don't use facing the wall punishment in English schools. I don't think that you should use the England excuse in France though- why would they care about what happens in other countries? Behaviour in English schools are at an all time low so I wouldn't use them as a role model.

Facing the wall doesn't help calling out - he can presumably hear the lesson so could still call out the answers anyway. How did his previous teachers deal with it ? Were their methods more effective ?

I can remember being told to stand in the corner, facing the wall because 'no-one wanted to see [my] ugly face!' This was about 55 years ago, in a small village school. The reason for this punishment was that I had flicked paper pellet at someone with my ruler (he had started it, but I got caught).

The fact that I can remember this incident after more than half a century shows that it did make an impact on me. Yet, I had behaved in a way that was wrong, and punishments like this were common in those days.

Calling out answers without putting up a hand, however, is something the teacher should be able to manage without humiliating the child. For example, ask the class to write down their answers; ask the group to stick their answers on the board on Postits; allow the child to answer, but also take answers from others; use an electronic/Smart tool which allows contributions from the whole group. If this is a very new teacher, it could be the case that he needs a few more behaviour management strategies up his sleeve.

I really do no agree with asking children to stand in the corner facing the wall, and it is certainly highly inappropriate for behaviour that shows the child is really engaged in the lesson.

They don't send out primary school kids in the Uk either as who is going to make sure that they stay there and don't run off and cause trouble elsewhere?

In the 90s my Geography teacher's favourite punishment was 'human drawing pin'. You had to hold a piece of paper against the wall with your nose.
It wouldn't happen now.

I remember having to do this at primary in the late 90s because I would often blurt stuff out impulsively. It didn't change my behaviour (adhd) and i just remember feeling embarrassed more than anything. Definitely cannot imagine it happening now in the UK.

I'm 30 and remember having to do this in primary school in the UK.
For me a couple of minutes as a time out strategy isn't too bad, but if my child was made to stand still for a long length of time I'd be upset.

I don’t know whether it still happens, but I remember being punished in this way in primary school in the mid/ late 90s in NI. I remember the punishment but can’t remember what I did, that teacher had taken an instant dislike to me though so don’t think it was too serious.

My high school took a different approach and sent kids out of the room entirely. Wish they did it more tbh as some of the boys in my class were really disruptive and annoying.

It wouldn’t be ok in the uk because it’s a form of humiliation. I remember having to stand and face the wall aged about 7. I was a bit embarrassed but then I had been naughty and didn’t do it again.

Why is he in school if he's suffered trauma? I'm here crying for a little boy l don't even know..just imagining him stood facing the wall breaks my heart.
Home educate him...his mental health is worth much more.

No it wouldn't be OK in the UK but you are not in the UK so not sure how helpful that is. Surely you need to speak to the teacher about your son and his past experiences. You also need to discuss his behaviour in calling out and interrupti g the lesson. To jump to the mayor seems a bit odd and likely to get you nowhere fast especially if you want to have a good working relationship with the teacher have you spoken to the teacher yet?

Correct.

The OP needs to ask if there is such a thing as a behaviour policy at this school. It may be that getting children to do this is seen as acceptable there.

If so, the battle is a massive, cultural one.

I teach in France and my own dc are out the other side. Things are a lot more robust than in the UK. Primary is generally ok- depends on the teacher- but the college is tough. I have had battles along the way but in the end just realised it was futile.
The good thing is it churns out very resilient dc. Who look back on their school days very fondly.

It’d be the equivalent of time out (ie sitting on a chair). My sister is a teacher in france and time-outs are commonly used. My DS used to be at school in Ireland and they’d have a ‘warning’ system and a ‘red warning’ would mean sitting out playtime, so no, not that shocked at france using time-outs.

And for many many years before that.
We should know better now.

It is far more important to tackle the issue of him not understanding why he is being punished. If he doesn't understand why he is in trouble, the punishment is never going to be effective and is upsetting him for no reason. You need to tackle this with school.

It does appear that this is a common disciplinary approach in France:
https://www.myfrenchlife.org/2015/02/19/french-education-system/#:~:text=French%20education%20in%20the%20classroom,kids%20were%20simply%20considered%20intolerable.

My pathetic PE teacher made me do this in year 7 because I had forgotten to label my hockey socks. I lost all respect for her in that instance like, is that literally all you have in your arsenal?

My recollection of school in the 80's might be blurred, but I remember at least half the class 'facing the wall' at some point or another. I was more familiar with the magnolia-painted walls than I was with the blackboard. Because I was a gobby shite who liked to disrupt the entire class with my desire to do something more fun than learn!

I'm in my 50s now and the only trauma I have suffered as a result is finding it quite amusing to look back on. My poor teachers!

And fwiw, should I so wish, I could now use the prefix 'Dr' in front of my name. It obviously didn't do me too much harm, but I'm glad it's no longer standard practice in schools in this country.