Page 12 | To not be surprised to see threads on LGB being questioned now?!

SuperNewMe · 2023-09-15T22:15:51+00:00

Just typed a reply and the thread disappeared quickly (makes a change as when it's trans related ones they stay?!) So it's not a TAAT, it's just to say that after all the anti trans rhetoric you see on here sometimes, it comes as absolutely no surprise that there are now more threads attacking lesbian and gay couples ( not natural was the phrase used) Not to mention one still on the go as far as I'm aware that refers to LGBTQ as "special rainbow people" YABU you're imagining things YANBU things seem to be ramping up against LGBT people in general (I say this as someone who's straight and not trans)

Defiantjazz · 16/09/2023 12:38

oh bingo I’m a misogynist too 😂. I’m a rabid feminist.

Er…being misogynist is not synonymous with feminism. Quite the reverse I would have thought.

PonyPatter44 · 16/09/2023 12:50

I know you said you aren't coming back, but what about prisons? Should transwomen be sent to female prisons?

The vast overwhelming majority of female prisoners have been victims of domestic violence, and assault by men. A high proportion have been raped or seriously sexually assaulted by men. Regardless of their index offence, is it right to lock them up with men? How would you personally feel if you were locked into a 12x8 cell with an unknown man, knowing you'd be there all night, and you wouldn't be unlocked until perhaps 8am?

If you buy into the twaw fiction, they have to be treated as women all the way down the line, and prisons are part of that.

FOJN · 16/09/2023 12:51

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:21

Anyways, this debate has lost all of is substance and is now reduced
to ad hominem attacks . For the sake of my mental health, and real life relationships I really must bow out. I’ve done my best for reason and progress today, as ever i wish I could have done better.
✌🏻

Well it really hasn't, you've just avoided addressing posters you cannot answer.

I appreciate you are disappointed with your performance but you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, the material you have to work with is weak. I do think you have let yourself down by not having the first clue what you are taking about but with a little research I think you can correct that for next time.

You have been an excellent springboard for the rest of us, so thank you for that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2023 12:51

She doesn't have any answers apart from twee memes and platitudes. Of course she isn't coming back.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2023 12:53

I’ve done my best for reason and progress today

Lolapusht · 16/09/2023 13:06

@MNHQ…can you reinstate my post if I edit the offending terms?

Brefugee · 16/09/2023 13:07

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:03

Every time someone has referred to “men who identify as women”, that is transphobia. Every time someone has referred to trans ideology that is transphobia. Every time someone has presented trans people as a group as sexual predators and a threat to women as a group, that is transphobia.

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your position appears to be that everything is transphobia.

No wonder you think it's all over the place.

I'm a woman. I'm not now, and never will be, able to be a trans woman. And why is that? because I'm not a man.

If the denial of material reality is transphobic - well get used to it.

I've been thinking about the "we've always been in your spaces" stuff. It is possibly (maybe even probably) true that trans women have been quietly, and without fanfare (certainly without strutting round changing rooms with an erection talking about their lady dick) getting on with their lives. And up to recently nobody had a problem around it.

Strutting round with your lady dick erection, wanking in women's spaces and filming and posting it, saying "we're coming for your children"? That is shocking, and needs to stop.

Perfect28 · 16/09/2023 13:13

@GreyBlackBay why can't gender critical mean exactly that, critical of gender. In that sense it makes sense to identify as having no gender surely.

Tandora · 16/09/2023 13:15

FOJN · 16/09/2023 12:51

Well it really hasn't, you've just avoided addressing posters you cannot answer.

I appreciate you are disappointed with your performance but you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, the material you have to work with is weak. I do think you have let yourself down by not having the first clue what you are taking about but with a little research I think you can correct that for next time.

You have been an excellent springboard for the rest of us, so thank you for that.

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Well it really hasn't, you've just avoided addressing posters you cannot answer

Thats not true at all. I have tried to answer as many as I could- you can appreciate being one person in conversation with so many- it can be a challenge to address everything.

I do think you have let yourself down by not having the first clue what you are taking about but with a little research I think you can correct that for next time

If only you knew 🤣🤣😔

I think your post speaks to the kind of person you are, and your character, and my posts speak to mine and I am happy with that.

I appreciate I said I had to go, but curiosity got the best of me, and i admit that the personal nature of this post got under my skin (as was intended of course).

Anyways, I shall once again leave you all to your echo chamber.

P.S. I didn’t “flounce”, I simply have real world responsibilities that prohibit me from spending my entire weekend on mumsnet.

Brefugee · 16/09/2023 13:18

oh mate, if you're going to flounce you have to stay away.

But you have made a right charlie of yourself exposing your complete and utter lack of language and complete and utter lack of understanding of what we're talking about and incapable of making any coherent logical sense.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2023 13:20

"And another thing!"

Defiantjazz · 16/09/2023 13:21

oh mate, if you're going to flounce you have to stay away

They never do though. One minute they’re all I’ve had enough of losing the argument this thread, got to go, things to do, and the next they’re back again.

Brefugee · 16/09/2023 13:24

I mean, flounce and if you want to make another point, at least NC

AliOlis · 16/09/2023 13:24

I didn't “flounce”, I simply have real world responsibilities that prohibit me from spending my entire weekend on mumsnet
Yet here you are , and still not answering any questions you've been asked.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2023 13:26

why can't gender critical mean exactly that, critical of gender. In that sense it makes sense to identify as having no gender surely.

It does. "Gender" is an externally imposed social construct.

Boomboom22 · 16/09/2023 13:29

Of course, all gc women have no gender. We recognise sex as the basis of oppression due to reproductive abilities though and therefore the need for sex segregation when changing etc. It's also why feminists campaign for equality in all aspects of life.

Boomboom22 · 16/09/2023 13:30

That's why gc feminists often call gender personality. And sex sex. Behaviours are mostly irrelevant apart from the fact it is men who overwhelming sexually assault and rape.

lifeturnsonadime · 16/09/2023 13:37

Still waiting to see how the inclusion of males who identify as women in feminism helps females in issues that relate to our biological realities and reproductive capabilities?

Surely @Tandora can answer this very straight forward question.

AnSolas · 16/09/2023 14:23

Tandora · 16/09/2023 09:16

As above:

no one should ever be questioned or coerced about their sexual practices. Everyone has the right to accept or reject any sexual encounter absolutely as they please. I believe that any decent person feels the same.

I do think a person’s expressed sexual preferences can absolutely be a reflection of prejudice, however- we can clearly see this in how black women and fat women and disabled women are often culturally represented as sexually undesirable - and I do think it’s transphobic and sexist and wrongheaded to define a person wholly in terms of their genitals.

in terms of the first point, I do think it’s ok (and in fact important) to have conversations around this, as difficult as they can be. For example, I recently had a row with my DP as he casually declared that he “isn’t attracted to black women”. I suggested his comments were informed by racism. he became furious: he insisted his preferences were biologically driven and had nothing to do with racial prejudice. I entirely disagree , both with his assertion he is not attracted to black women (I know full well there are any number of black women he would meet in the world and be wildly attracted to) , and with his belief that his opinion - “black women are not attractive” - is biologically, rather than socially and culturally produced.

These conversations are really difficult and complicated and don’t lend themselves well to a discussion on social media, but I hope this at least makes some sense.

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Oh my.
Operation Let them speak!

Just in case noone has asked

What was his reaction when you explained that he was transphobic as he just has not found the right (white or black) male yet?

FOJN · 16/09/2023 14:23

Tandora · 16/09/2023 13:15

Well it really hasn't, you've just avoided addressing posters you cannot answer

Thats not true at all. I have tried to answer as many as I could- you can appreciate being one person in conversation with so many- it can be a challenge to address everything.

I do think you have let yourself down by not having the first clue what you are taking about but with a little research I think you can correct that for next time

If only you knew 🤣🤣😔

I think your post speaks to the kind of person you are, and your character, and my posts speak to mine and I am happy with that.

I appreciate I said I had to go, but curiosity got the best of me, and i admit that the personal nature of this post got under my skin (as was intended of course).

Anyways, I shall once again leave you all to your echo chamber.

P.S. I didn’t “flounce”, I simply have real world responsibilities that prohibit me from spending my entire weekend on mumsnet.

Edited

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If only you knew 🤣🤣😔

Come now, don't hide your light under a bushel, educate us.

I've been waiting about 7 years for someone to explain why gender should take primacy over sex in legislation.

Naunet · 16/09/2023 14:23

Tandora · 16/09/2023 11:17

You’re claiming that no one is same sex attracted because we can’t possibly tell who is female and who is male

this is a gross caricature of what I said. What is said is everyday judgements about sex and gender, and our sexual attraction to others, cannot be reduced to the appearance of genitals. (This doesn’t mean we can’t make a very good guess about what type of genitals someone has based on their appearance)

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It’s not reduced to genitals, why are you pretending the only biological difference between men and women is their genitals?

jellyfrizz · 16/09/2023 14:43

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:16

They aren’t though. Yours are. I’m not the one whose ideas are strictly rooted in biological essentialism. If you know anything about feminism you’ll know how harmful such ideas have been to women and girls everywhere.

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Gender IS biological essentialism.

Winnading · 16/09/2023 15:36

Tandora · 16/09/2023 08:53

You baffle me! Stonewall is a charity that was set up to advocate for the rights of LGBT people. They are the last people on this earth who are homophobic. Just because they refuse to cut of the “t” , to abandon trans people, to throw them to the homophobic/ transphobic dogs, you call them homophobic. It is deeply twisted and ironic and just makes me want to scream and tear my hair out. Homophobia and transphobia share the same roots. It is the often the same people (and always) suffering the same discrimination, you have completely lost the plot

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We have lost the plot, but you makes me want to scream and tear my hair out
you could always come up with a decent argument instead of emojis!

As the T were added some time after the LGB in 2015 iirc, are you sure that stonewall are not homophobic?

MargotBamborough · 16/09/2023 15:44

Tandora · 16/09/2023 08:53

You baffle me! Stonewall is a charity that was set up to advocate for the rights of LGBT people. They are the last people on this earth who are homophobic. Just because they refuse to cut of the “t” , to abandon trans people, to throw them to the homophobic/ transphobic dogs, you call them homophobic. It is deeply twisted and ironic and just makes me want to scream and tear my hair out. Homophobia and transphobia share the same roots. It is the often the same people (and always) suffering the same discrimination, you have completely lost the plot

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No, Stonewall was set up to advocate for the rights of LGB people, back when they didn't have the same rights that straight people did.

The T got bolted on once the people in their cushy jobs at Stonewall realised they had achieved that objective and were in danger of making themselves redundant.

It now claims to be for LGBT rights but is in practice mainly about the T, and its most recent CEO likened lesbians who don't want to have sex with trans women because they have a penis to racists. Stonewall is, unfortunately, homophobic as fuck these days.

FarEast · 16/09/2023 15:52

Several of the actual founders of Stonewall have publicly criticised the homophobia of Stonewall in its pursuit of extreme trans rights. See what Simon Fanshawe says about Stonewall, for example.