Page 11 | To not be surprised to see threads on LGB being questioned now?!

SuperNewMe · 2023-09-15T22:15:51+00:00

Just typed a reply and the thread disappeared quickly (makes a change as when it's trans related ones they stay?!) So it's not a TAAT, it's just to say that after all the anti trans rhetoric you see on here sometimes, it comes as absolutely no surprise that there are now more threads attacking lesbian and gay couples ( not natural was the phrase used) Not to mention one still on the go as far as I'm aware that refers to LGBTQ as "special rainbow people" YABU you're imagining things YANBU things seem to be ramping up against LGBT people in general (I say this as someone who's straight and not trans)

MsRosley · 16/09/2023 12:15

Many of the people dispensing allegedly 'anti-trans rhetoric' on MN are gay themselves. How do you square that circle, OP? Have you considered how trans activism impacts gay people, especially lesbians?

Plus I've never seen anything homophobic on MN in all the time I've been on here.

Sueveneers · 16/09/2023 12:15

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:13

You've managed to out yourself as a homophobe and a misogynist on a thread

oh bingo I’m a misogynist too 😂. I’m a rabid feminist.

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😂😂 If your 'feminism' centres male wants and entitlements and privilege over vulnerable womens needs and rights, you are not a feminist. You're a rabid meninist.

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:16

lifeturnsonadime · 16/09/2023 12:14

'I’m a rabid feminist.' I've heard it all now. More like a comedian only your ideas are actually harmful to females rather than funny.

Edited

They aren’t though. Yours are. I’m not the one whose ideas are strictly rooted in biological essentialism. If you know anything about feminism you’ll know how harmful such ideas have been to women and girls everywhere.

Cutestfeet · 16/09/2023 12:17

I don't know about on here but I hate those terms they are micro homophobic meaning being shady to gay people but not being direct "special rainbow people" and another one "alphabet people" just say gay people it's not hard

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:17

Sueveneers · 16/09/2023 12:15

😂😂 If your 'feminism' centres male wants and entitlements and privilege over vulnerable womens needs and rights, you are not a feminist. You're a rabid meninist.

Edited

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your 'feminism' centres male wants and entitlements and privilege over vulnerable womens needs and rights

it does nothing of the sort

MargotBamborough · 16/09/2023 12:17

I haven't seen anything homophobic on here. If there are homophobic threads which are being zapped too quickly for them to be seen by many people, I'd say MNHQ are doing their job.

Sueveneers · 16/09/2023 12:18

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:16

They aren’t though. Yours are. I’m not the one whose ideas are strictly rooted in biological essentialism. If you know anything about feminism you’ll know how harmful such ideas have been to women and girls everywhere.

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Women are oppressed based on our sex, not identity. That's why our foresister feminists fought for single sex-based spaces and rights for women. Advocating the removal of these spaces and rights, is extremely harmful to women. If you were actually a feminist you'd know that.

JamSandle · 16/09/2023 12:19

I haven't noticed anything against gay, lesbian or bi people. Not to say it's not happening. But if so it has gone over my head!

FOJN · 16/09/2023 12:19

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:16

They aren’t though. Yours are. I’m not the one whose ideas are strictly rooted in biological essentialism. If you know anything about feminism you’ll know how harmful such ideas have been to women and girls everywhere.

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Do you even know what biological essentialism means? Sigh

Sueveneers · 16/09/2023 12:20

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:17

your 'feminism' centres male wants and entitlements and privilege over vulnerable womens needs and rights

it does nothing of the sort

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It absolutely does. You recommend having male bodies with penis and testicles in with women and girls. Some who are DV surivors and rape survivors. You're position is dangerous, harmful, cruel and ignorant. You centre men over the needs of the VULNERABLE, OPPRESSED class.

Boomboom22 · 16/09/2023 12:21

You don't even know what the terms you use mean! Ridiculous.

MargotBamborough · 16/09/2023 12:21

SuperNewMe · 16/09/2023 00:35

@catgirl1976

I think a lot of people questioning the TRA agenda ARE LGB
That's kind of tied in with my point though?
As in, the T has been separated from LGB on here and elsewhere as in a "look, it's them, not us?"
They see themselves separate.
When it comes down to it, yes, a lot of people will be with you (general you) as they don't agree with the T
Doesn't make it right though. An attack on LGBT rights all seems to be an attack on women as well ( bodily autonomy, whether it be surrogacy laws being reduced, trans men (as in born female ) being portrayed as vulnerable little children even when they're grown adults.
I'm not surprised to see more threads questioning being lesbian or gay recently was my point

I'm not following your logic at all here.

Most people I have seen opposing "trans rights" (not that the things trans people are asking for are actually rights) do so specifically because they come into conflict with the rights of women and gay people.

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:21

Anyways, this debate has lost all of is substance and is now reduced
to ad hominem attacks . For the sake of my mental health, and real life relationships I really must bow out. I’ve done my best for reason and progress today, as ever i wish I could have done better.
✌🏻

Boomboom22 · 16/09/2023 12:22

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 reason.

Winnading · 16/09/2023 12:22

Ladybrrrd · 16/09/2023 00:42

I completely agree. Trans people (most often TW) are at best disrespected on here with pronouns and names and things, and at worst called, perverts and pedos. Any man caught wearing 'women's clothes' (whatever that means) is a disgusting AGP.You're not wrong but it's been like that for a while.

And the trouble is LGB people then DO end up getting it in the neck - masculine women being accused of being trans and shouted at in toilets, drag artists (a tradition in the gay community for a very long time) being called groomers.

I am agender and gender critical myself, and I regularly have respectful conversations about it with trans people. There's a way to talk so people will listen. Deliberately disregarding what someone chooses to call themselves is not the way to go.

You are agender? So you can tell me what gender is.
I'm all ears. Some of us have been asking what gender is for some time now.

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:23

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

MargotBamborough · 16/09/2023 12:24

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:16

They aren’t though. Yours are. I’m not the one whose ideas are strictly rooted in biological essentialism. If you know anything about feminism you’ll know how harmful such ideas have been to women and girls everywhere.

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No, gender stereotypes are what are harmful to women and girls everywhere.

Feminism isn't about pretending that there are no physical differences between men and women. It's about recognising that women have been oppressed on that basis and fighting to achieve equity for women.

The "girl wear pink dresses and play with dolls, boys wear blue shorts and play with trucks" narrative is deeply harmful, and that is how some people now want to define everybody.

Sueveneers · 16/09/2023 12:25

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You realise that 97% of trans women retain their penis and testicles, right? What the hell is wrong with you, that you didn't realise that? So if you say trans women (men with penis and testicles) should be in with women, that is EXACTLY what you are saying. So own it.

TeenDivided · 16/09/2023 12:28

Cutestfeet · 16/09/2023 12:17

I don't know about on here but I hate those terms they are micro homophobic meaning being shady to gay people but not being direct "special rainbow people" and another one "alphabet people" just say gay people it's not hard

The only times I have seen terms like those used it has been very much not about gay people. It has been about everything that comes after the LGB - the letters that don't seem to be about sexuality but are about identity.

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:28

Sueveneers · 16/09/2023 12:25

You realise that 97% of trans women retain their penis and testicles, right? What the hell is wrong with you, that you didn't realise that? So if you say trans women (men with penis and testicles) should be in with women, that is EXACTLY what you are saying. So own it.

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Actually I have to apologise here as I read your post wrong.
I though you said “in”, not “in with”.
I thought you were accusing me of promoting rape of women and girls. I now see that’s not what you meant.

I’ve asked mumsnet to remove my post as I realised it was based on this misunderstanding of what you said.

Anyways I am off to attend to my children and my day

x

Boomboom22 · 16/09/2023 12:30

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

But literally every post you support tw and this is exactly what twaw means. Men with penises who identify as women in toilets, Prisons, sports for women. Because you say twanw is transphobia! You say stonewall is right, This is what they have campaigned for since 2002 onwards. Tw to be allowed to have no medical transition but be treated as bio women in all cases.

lifeturnsonadime · 16/09/2023 12:30

Tandora · 16/09/2023 12:16

They aren’t though. Yours are. I’m not the one whose ideas are strictly rooted in biological essentialism. If you know anything about feminism you’ll know how harmful such ideas have been to women and girls everywhere.

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Prey tell me how exactly does centring the rights of males in women's rights help women and girls who have, throughout history, been oppressed due to our biological reality and particularly our reproductive capacity which (owing to biology) cannot and does not apply to these males?

Really interested to hear you answer.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2023 12:36

No, gender stereotypes are what are harmful to women and girls everywhere.

Feminism isn't about pretending that there are no physical differences between men and women. It's about recognising that women have been oppressed on that basis and fighting to achieve equity for women.

I think Tandora understands feminism equally as much as she understands LGB rights.

nothingcomestonothing · 16/09/2023 12:37

In a crowded field, I think this is my favourite of PPs pronouncements:

when it comes to things like “gait”, there are huge environmental, cultural and social influences too

Please, please come back and tell us the ways in which environment, culture and socialisation affect the physical differences in the skeletal structure of male and female humans. If possible, with reference to the handy pic of q angles helpfully provided above.

This is the kind of mess you get into, when you talk about things you don't really understand, and you don't listen to people who do understand them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2023 12:38

I’m not the one whose ideas are strictly rooted in biological essentialism

No, yours are rooted in deeply sexist stereotypes and unscientific magical thinking.