Should Shopkeepers Be Permitted To Detain Shoplifters

[CallumDansTransitVan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66790189

With regard to the attached video. Is it acceptable for a shopkeeper to either detain potential shoplifters, or stop them leaving with goods they haven't paid for?

But only because the shoplifter may be dangerous and carry a weapon.
I would risk it personally .

Not with violence.

“I don't know when my hand goes around her neck. I was keeping her neutralised. I did not hit her.”

What a pity, his hand magically wrapped around her neck. Because of things like this, no shopkeepers shouldn’t be allowed to detain because there will always be people who go too far.

And certain demographics will be treated worse than others. I had a mate who worked in primark in a predominantly White populated city. she said she’d never seen the security guard use force on any white female shoplifter, so it made her gasp when she saw him slam a young Black girl against the ground.

Also add to the fact that false claims are rife, against POC due to racial profiling. I was randomly accused of shoplifting in accessorise on my way to work once . I made a formal complaint and was offered a daft gift voucher and apology but I’d have been even more furious if I’d had been detained until police came.

And trust me, re. The Peckham incident those black hair shops are making significant money most of the time and this Neanderthal choked a woman over £24 worth of products. But he doesn’t know how his hand appeared on her neck. Weird isn’t it! This is not the Wild West we can’t have shop staff turning into self appointed police.

I cannot see what he did was unreasonable. He surely can't be expected to just stand there and allow people to remove goods from his shop and take no action?
His response appeared proportionate to the thief - after all, she could have put down the goods she was trying to steal and left calmly, but she choose to try and tough it out.

Police don't bother with shoplifters so this was inevitable

Call the police! Take a picture of the person! Even at worst if he did insist on putting his hands on her for £24, he should not have grabbed her neck. That is how you handle a dog surely?? Why can’t you see any alternative to how he treated her?

And no it’s not proportionate force - absolute nonsense. Choking a woman to stop her stealing 24 quid of hair products is not proportionate or necessary.

Shopkeepers, security guards, and members of the public are perfectly entitled to use reasonable force to detain shoplifters,

However, you really need to be confident of the law pertaining to the definition of theft, and understand reasonable force and the risks involved in using even the most minimal of force.

I've done it previously in my working life, and as a MOP, and I would do it again, but I wouldn't put my own safety, or the safety of others at risk.

The main issue is getting the police to respond to a non-violent shoplifter, who has stolen a low value of goods. You could literally be detaining them for hours!

I think shopkeepers and security staff should be allowed to detain people until police arrive, but not if they’re going to do it the way he did in that video. Maybe they could have some sort of training and accreditation to show that they can detain people safely and within the law and that would also act as a deterrent to thieves.

I don’t have any sympathy for the woman in that video though. She chose to take risks when she started stealing.

What was almost inevitable that out of all the shoplifters of all demographics it was a black woman who was handled like this. Start showing me scores of videos involving white women shoplifters being treated like this and let’s see if the mood is the same.

There is another part to the video from the store cctv before the part that was filmed by the bystander. She had ample chance to simply stop and put the goods down before he grabbed her neck, and she was trying barge past and leave the shop.
I am not sure what the relevance of £24 is? Stealing £24 is ok?
Stealing is stealing. The woman was trying to hit him and escape.

No, otherwise management and the owners might try to make the staff stop shoplifters.

I used to work in a shop/petrol station and if I caught someone shoplifting, I'd just let them go. They could have a knife or anything. I had no intention of risking my life, when I'm working minimum wage on a zero hour contract (even on Christmas Day). I'd ring the police but sometimes it took them days to come.

https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/1702008059592097966

I'm sure we have all seen the local substance abuser being huckled back into the store in a similar manner at the local supermarket. In my area the majority of those being detained are white. These don't make national news, nor do they have the locals demonstrating against the shopkeeper or staff.

Thank you so much for that. Gives a considerably different slant to what is being portrayed by the demonstators outside the shop.

Exactly this! You have put what I thought very succinctly.
If the woman was innocent, then we should worry about the racial profiling but as she did seem to steal goods, that theft should be the main concern. Theft is theft no matter the race of the person.

The video the BBC have used is actually quite misleading.

He wasn't in the wrong. If you watch all of the footage she began the physical violence and kept it going too.

Very different!

Disgusting woman.

I automatically had sympathy with the shoplifter when I read about this. But the video and the shopkeeper’s account changed my mind.

Having seen the fuller footage she appears guilty of assault. She also picked up the basket purely to use as a weapon - she didn't have it before to carry goods. Other customers were trying to prevent her attack on him, that said it isn't clear which video happened first and that is important- it completely changes the story.

There is an important conversation to be had about how black people are treated but they have chosen a poor figurehead. And by using the footage and quotes they have the BBC seems guilty of bias and trying to control the narrative.

I work in retail, and I'm not detaining anyone. I'm not putting myself at risk.

I live in an area with a large traveller population and I know in stores they are followed around. We've never had a problem with them, our shoplifters are pensioners

If a man was caught on video throttling a white woman there would not be a single post on Mumsnet defending him and saying that she asked for it. I'm 10000% certain of it.

Mumsnet is the most racist forum I've ever seen in my entire life.

The threads about George Floyd were a disgrace, people acting like he deserved to be murdered in cold blood.

The threads about Ahmaud Arbery were full of comments implying he might have been guilty (of nothing, since he was not accused of anything) and defending the redneck violent thugs who just wanted to chase down and lynch the first black man they saw.

There was a thread recently over a black woman who was harassed and assaulted by police over an issue with her being suspected of not having swiped in properly on the bus (she had paid), lots of racism, lots of comments indicating that being assaulted is just what you should expect if you don't bend over backwards for police, and some posters sharing personal experience of getting away with not paying (as white people) or seeing white people not challenged for not paying, and then other posters attacking them.

The threads about the BLM protests in 2020 were full of outraged screaming about thugs, from the same posters who were out in droves playing the "I don't agree with them but I support their right to free speech" card in the threads about the white supremacist/Neo Nazi rallies.

but they have chosen a poor figurehead.
No one has chosen her as a "figurehead" ffs. Pointing out that throttling women is not an appropriate response to shoplifting is not making someone a figurehead. Besides the woman in the bus incident had done nothing wrong, yet there was still pages and pages of demonising her.

If this was a white woman the discussion would be completely different. You know it would be.

On the assumption that she was taking stuff for which she had not paid - and given that our police will not do anything, then yes it's alright for him to detain her. Otherwise what is the alternative? You can just walk into shops and take what you want because the police won't care and the shopkeeper will be prohibited from stopping you leaving? Britain has gone down the toilet.

We can detain them but then you have to hold them for an indeterminate amount of time