Should Shopkeepers Be Permitted To Detain Shoplifters

[CallumDansTransitVan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66790189

With regard to the attached video. Is it acceptable for a shopkeeper to either detain potential shoplifters, or stop them leaving with goods they haven't paid for?

The whole scenario is sad and wrong.

The woman initiated and escalated the problem. Independent shopkeepers are at their wits’ end dealing with theft, but there is absolutely no excuse for the fact that the man put his hands round the woman’s neck. That is the single worst aspect of the situation and likely is because she is a POC.

I have a white, European face but a foreign accent. I’ve never stolen anything deliberately in my life. But after hearing my accent security guards and clerks at shops in my naice village sometimes treat me differently from British people. (Interestingly when I venture into the super posh shops of nearby villages where the local sports stars etc live this is not a problem). I completely believe that this type of shop personnel treat POC much worse.

There is enough blame to share out amply. This shows why giving shopkeepers the power to detain is a bad idea. The police need to step up and to fund them adequately we need a new government.

My vision of a civilised country is not one where thieves can steal my possessions with impunity whilst I have to stand by and watch.

@itsmylife7 😆 yes, male on male violence is unknown.

I don't think she was stealing.. She was just exchanging what she had originally bought because she bought the wrong colour
She then went to the shelf to pick the correct colour of hair she wanted. Then the shopkeeper locked the door.... That's false imprisonment!

Pretty sure he told her he wasn’t doing an exchange or refund and then she went to steal the items she wanted.

Did you watch the video, she startes whacking him.

I am begining to wonder if some people are purposefully distorting the facts.

Watch the second video posted here. Whatever her reason for removing the goods, the fact remains she tried to leave without paying for them. She then behaved incredibly aggressively when the shopkeeer tried to stop her taking the unpaid goods. He walks away from her and SHE goes after him.

Just as I stated earlier, the shopkeeper was under absolutely no requirement to exchange non faulty goods. I also imagine there is a backstory here also. Most will exchange like for like providing there is a proof of purchase.

BasicPumpkinSpice
What deadly force was carried out?, he pushes her from behind and then holds her by the upper arms. The only time his hands were anywhere near her neck was when she was struggling and hitting him.

As for a shopkeeper accepting thefts. Yes they accept it happens. No they should not accept it happening right in front of them, and I cannot believe any shopkeeper would of just stood aside.

Have a read of this link:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-ugly-truth-about-the-peckham-shop-scuffle/

and in particular this statement that is on one of the posters placed on the store since:
Other posters point to simmering tensions in the area: ‘It’s not just this store, it’s all of them on the strip!! Black owned only’; ‘If you have been assulted (sic) by any store in Peckham contact Raspact Rebellion’.

Isn't that actually a racist statement in itself?

Neither is mine. My preference is a society where we have a crime prevention system, a crime detection force and a criminal justice system.

Citizen-on-citizen violence is not my idea of civilization. But other people do like to be violent, I accept that.

I've seen it happen. Out side marks and Spencers 3 security guards tackled a man to the floor and pinned him down until the police arrived, hands behind his back. He was yelling to be let go and to stand up. It was a hard concrete floor.

Members of the public were yelling to let him go.

For a few £s of stuff just let them go. They don't deserve it.

Does she scream "rape rape rape" in the video?

I was quite surprised by the Guardian headline "Black woman ...". This is the high street on Peckham where the majority of shoppers are black. It was a shop for black hair products. It would have been a surprise if a white woman was in that shop.

The headline should have been WOMAN endangered by MAN in violent incident. All colours of skin are totally irrelevant in this particular one.

Retailers should be able to use reasonable force to detain shoplifters.

But only if they know they have stolen something. Not because they are black, or female, or have a gob on them, or have a bag they won't open. Or because they won't scan a receipt to get out of a self serve area.

Only with clear evidence of theft. Not just some vague suspicion or annoyance that they're not obeying the "rules".

And grabbing someone's throat is completely unacceptable. The force has to be reasonable and fit the crime. Grabbing someone's throat may be acceptable as self-defence, but not to stop someone nicking a bottle of wine.

And the police response to that woman and the bus was utterly ridiculous.

Stealing is fine if it’s low value stuff?

Being repeatedly hit with hands and objects probably didn't do much for his temper.

He didn't grab her throat because of the shoplifting. He tried to block her leaving and SHE got violent, after being hit in the face and round the head he was trying to defend himself.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66790189

It does sound a bit like that in the BBC video. If she is shouting that, then she is an even bigger expletive.

Violence and restraining someone is fine because they stole some low value items?!

The punishment needs to fit the crime.

whilst i agree that in a good society people should be held to account.

I don't want to live in a nation where a man grabbing a much smaller woman around the throat is excused because she's a wrong 'un.

Proportionate. That is the watch word here. If she was trying to hit him with the basket (as i think i saw?) then get behind and pin her arms behind her. Or, indeed, take a photo and call the police? or just call the police since he has CCTV.

It is the throat grabbing that is really wrong here. Stealing is wrong too, but bloody hell, people up there comparing 24 quid's worth of hair products with having your phone or laptop grabbed (around 300 quid at the least?)

If she was stealing why was she talking to the shopkeeper who immediately came from behind the counter when she went to the back of the shop. He did not want to exchange. He then hit her when she tried to leave. She took the basket to defend herself. You don't have to be in a dark alley before you defend yourself. SHE WAS NOT STEALING

I agree.

The video isn’t that clear but it looks to me as though he grabs her arm then she reacts by hitting with the basket. She is also the one shouting for the police to be called which she wouldn’t do if she had done anything wrong. Whatever happened though there is no excuse for violence.

If it had been a white woman, would a group of white people been demonstrating/protesting outside the shop?

I was in an Aldi yesterday at the same time as a shoplifter who the staff had spotted. As she tried to leave with a bag full of stuff they blocked her exit and demanded she hand over the bag, there was a bit of to and fro with her protesting she had done nothing wrong but within 20 seconds she'd handed over the bag and run out of the shop. Store staff aren't interested in "detaining" - just getting the stock back.

I've worked in retail, both in Aldi and Tesco. And no, I personally would never put myself at risk for goods when I was on just over minimum wage.

But, if I owned a business and I myself had paid £££s for the items on the shelf and having a loss and reducing my profits due to theft meant my family would have a worse quality of life, maybe I would put myself in a risky position.

There should be tougher sentencing on shoplifting. But police don't come out to deal with shoplifters and no one really gets prosecuted. In the heat of the moment I can see how things could escalate. Whats stopping literally anyone from walking into any shop and taking anything and everything they want? Because its not the police.

He did not want to exchange. He then hit her when she tried to leave. She took the basket to defend herself

No, if you look at the full recording you'll see that he simply stood in front of her to block her way when she tried to leave
Unfortunately she reacted violently to this, beating him again and again, and as they struggled through the shop that's when she grabbed the basket to assault him further - at which point he unwisely grabbed her neck

So she was not shoplifting.

"We do not give refunds, we exchange items or give a credit note. So she grabbed some stuff [three packs of hair with a total value of £24] from the shelf and tried to leave. She was leaving and I was stopping her."

That's what I thought of the initial story.