Should Shopkeepers Be Permitted To Detain Shoplifters

[CallumDansTransitVan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66790189

With regard to the attached video. Is it acceptable for a shopkeeper to either detain potential shoplifters, or stop them leaving with goods they haven't paid for?

No, the shopkeeper had a policy of no refunds. She also shoplifting.

People should be able to use reasonable force to detain criminals. The video of the shoplifter in London looks fine to me if you watch it in its entirety. The shoplifter is the one who is at fault. If they wanted a refund they should have taken the shop to court to determine whether they were entitled to one. If they hadn't kicked and hit the person trying to stop them from stealing the person wouldn't have needed to restrain them.

This is something that bugs me in a lot of "police brutality" videos (I know it's not the police in this case). It usually seems to be the person who is running away, threatening, abusing or not following officers' orders who gets hit/restrained/shot/tasered. Seldom seems to be the law-abiding citizen who, even if they are innocent, conducts themselves in a calm manner and allows the law to run its course that ends up in trouble.

They should change their policy. The way those shops have shafted black people. Anyway, I don't think this thread is for me.

Tell me why they should change their policy? I'm genuinely interested.

I was shocked when I watched the 2nd video.

One thing I am wondering is what the reaction is to the two people who tried to intervene and stop her attacking the shopkeeper, a black woman and a black man. I think their take on what happened would be interesting but they might be putting themselves at risk of some aggression for trying to protect the shopkeeper rather than the black woman.

Some one might know if they have commented,

has anyone had the hands round the throats of pp who think that's reasonable force for shoplifting (when the store's doors have been locked anyway)?

If the police are not going to attend these incidents immediately, we should remove the requirement for force to be 'reasonable' or 'proportionate'.

Shoplifters will think twice if they know that the shopkeeper is legally allowed to injure them, they are too emboldened now by a complete lack of deterrent.

brilliant idea.

Give some violent fuckwit working in the corner shop the right commit GBH without punishment.

Definitely a step forward for humanity.

More thieves off the streets sounds like a step forward to me. And it isn't carte blanche to do anything you want, only situations like this where the thief continues to try to make off with the goods, or where they are assaulting the staff/other shoppers. You might want to live in a society where criminals are molly-coddled, I am OK with some more immediate justice.

Some people like violence.

It solves nothing, of course.

The thieves will just escalate and become more violent themselves, so you'll have more dead shopkeepers and customers.

But great thinking!

Shoplifters will think twice if they know that the shopkeeper is legally allowed to injure them

Not necessarily; they'd probably just turn up armed

Come to that, given some of the racist filth that's being spouted online about this guy - also given the protest yesterday and that another's planned for Saturday - I do hope he's got some kind of protection

Some people do like violence, that has always been the case and wouldn't change. But there are also some people that don't care for violence but also want some alternative to letting thieves walk out the door and getting the police to attend four hours later just to give them a crime reference number.

Some thieves will escalate and come prepared, others will be deterred. This lady in the thread was an opportunistic thief who wasn't prepared.

I think equating protecting you're self , staff and livelihood with liking violence is ridiculously simplistic.

You can't imagine a shopkeeper being a violent individual?

Have you met many humans??

There are good and bad people everywhere. If you give a group of people (shopkeepers) a free pass to be violent, some will do terrible things. Obviously.

Anyone who doesn't think there's a limit on what you'll let slide has never had that limit pushed IME.

Other than grabbing someone and taking our stuff off them I've used what I would consider to be violence a handful of times in 25 years, once after someone punched my wife, once after someone punched another staff member and once when someone punched me, there might be more but nothing is coming to mind. Even in these cases I did the bare minimum to restrain them but if someone is hitting you and yours and you're just gonna roll over then I suggest you're a mug rather than some sort of elevated human

There's not what I said at all. It's your who's saying that anyone that uses violence likes doing it

I’d love to hear more about this.

To detain, yes, but not throttle! Unreasonable force should not be used. He was putting them both at risk potentially.

Having said that, if I had been in the shopkeepers position how well would I have been able to keep a cool head and not just lash out in self defense? It's easy to judge him, I guess.

But who I do judge are the police, who these days turn a blind eye to theft. Even when pets are stolen or when a house is broken into.

Yet when a disabled woman in her 60s puts stickers up saying a woman is an adult human female, or an autistic teenager says a police officer reminds her of a lesbian relative, the police are suddenly there in droves...🙄

the what now?
no need to be proportionate? like, what? they can stab them in the eye?

and yet on those occasions (or the two where i have punched someone) you never grabbed them around the throat.

Because you were doing the minimum to get them off your wife.

Yes, if they are still trying to steal the goods, or attacking you or a third party.

It's never been acceptable to detain anyone by the neck/strangulation, hence why police don't do it.

Just as it has been said the lady should have contacted trading standards about the shopkeepers refund policy (i'm sure he'll have them sniffing around soon after seeing a different video of him denying a refund of a defective product to a regular customer)... another member of staff could have called the police.

Although i doubt he'll need to change any refund policy if he's lost favour of the community he relies on to pay his bills.

Yes.

The additional footage shows things in a completely different light. Looks like she was assaulting him.

that is psycopathic. Don't be daft.
You are supposed to use the minimum required force. That isn't stabbing a shoplifter in the eye. Get some proportion.