Should Shopkeepers Be Permitted To Detain Shoplifters

[CallumDansTransitVan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66790189

With regard to the attached video. Is it acceptable for a shopkeeper to either detain potential shoplifters, or stop them leaving with goods they haven't paid for?

Absolutely disagree. Look what's happening in San Francisco, where shoplifting has effectively been decriminalised. There's massive, widespread thefts. Shops are closing and moving out of the city. It's becoming that way in this country and it needs to be tackled.

I've seen so much shoplifting - mostly junkies and those looking to sell on goods at pubs - and gangs of teenagers running into a shop, swiping everything they can and running out. In a middle-class and popular area of Bristol. Crime like this is now endemic. Police are nowhere to be seen and couldn't care less.

John Lewis and other retailers are trying to incentivise a police presence in their stores by offering free or discounted coffee and paying towards anti-shoplifting initiatives. What hope do small independent retailers have?

Why shouldn't violence be used against theft of property? It might make people think twice.

The situation was escalated unnecessarily

You're right, it was ... by her, which no doubt explains why she's the one who was arrested

The extended video makes all the difference, and while I don't think it was a good idea to hold her by the neck I've no doubt that any kind of restraint would have produced the same reaction - and after all that restraint only happened after she kept beating him, not because of the stealing

From watching the cctv on twitter, this was a scenario of the shop keeper defending himself. He was lashing out without thinking as that is what you do to defend yourself from an attack.
agreed the first video looked horrendous and that is what most people saw.

There were others on the video trying to stop the situation.

During covid a man was harassing me, I eventually lost it and turned round and shouted at him to leave me alone. Security guard grabbed me by the arm and forcibly marched me down the shop and out the door. I'm a 70 year old white woman, he was a white man, man harassing me was a white man. It isn't always racism but it might be a variety of things, sexism, ageism one thing it wasn't was anything to do with stealing which is what shoplifting is.

Either way I wouldn't have started hitting him as violence is never the answer.

You might not think it but the use of reasonable and proportionate force is literally the law

Grabbing someone by the throat is not proportionate IMO.

I was brought up not to be violent. You are free to be as violent as you choose, of course.

Have you actually watched the second more enlightening video along with the BBC one. Where you can see him holding her by the arms.

All escalation is down to her, along with the fact she was a thief.

Incidentally, I'm confident if it had been a male shoplifter, he would of been treated considerably rougher after hitting the shopkeeper like that.

I guess you can. Like those shutter doors they have in jewellery shops.

With the standard store though, I wouldn't. I would ask for the items back, get their picture from CCTV and report that way.

I didn't say shoplifting should be decriminalised and there should be adequate police activity to deter and investigate.

I just do not agree with citizen-on-citizen violence.

The fact the Tories have cut the police is not ok, obviously. Police cuts + hardship = rising crime. It's a political choice the government have made.

If a man was caught on video throttling a white woman there would not be a single post on Mumsnet defending him and saying that she asked for it. I'm 10000% certain of it.

If that white woman resisted all attempts to stop her leaving the store without laying a hand on her, then deliberately picked up a basket to hit the shopkeeper with, I'd not be defending her either - don't give a stuff what colour she is, she's a disgrace.

You make a very good point. I cannot believe the local community seem to think her behaviour is acceptable and are protesting outside the shop.

The woman is clearly crazy and violent. The size of that man and the amounts of hits he took without a thought of whether it could have killed him clearly shows the woman isn't well in the head although from the start no sane person would walk out a shop full of goods because of a refund dispute. The man from the video in twitter reacts in a way you would try to restrain someone aggressively violent with no stop button and that's the way she was behaving. But a lot of people and the community see it as a race, sexism blah blah. You may not be a violent person but when you challenge someone who then turns into a violent crazy person then what do you do @MidnightOnceMore? Sit and take all the hits and not defend yourself. Let me tell you this, if this altercation was done in my shop by this crazy woman (I'm a business owner) I would have been in hospitalised.

"Potential shoplifters" so if an innocent shopper is suspected of stealing they should be held against their will, for god knows how long the police may take to arrive, made late for work or picking up kids all to put someone's mind at rest because they could potentially be a shop lifter.
Nope.

Don’t agree with what he did but I can tell you he was probably fed up with being taken from and his temper made him get carried away. It’s horrible getting shoplifted. Have seen it a few times, and it wasn’t a loaf of bread or food, it was gifts or candles!

Ps we were told under no circumstances to detain or accuse so yes, they generally walk out, we send police and check camera- they’re gone by the time police arrive

I read she wanted to EXCHANGE some good she'd previously bought from the shop.
The shop refused the exchange.

She has a haidressers and buys products from the shop regularly?

Is this not true then ?

I guarantee he wouldn't have done that to a Male. !

Have you watched the full video?

Why should he stand back and allow her to hit him ? She became violent , he reacted. Are women allowed to be violent and expect no consequences?

Yes within limits.

It doesn't matter what her reason for being there was. Her behaviour was appalling. There is no legal requirement for the shopkeeper to exchange or refund any non faulty item previously purchased.

If it was another man who had behaved like this woman, he would likely have been put flat on his arse. I have witnessed some women behaving aggressively towards men as they believe the man shouldn't defend himself.

Yes.
Doesn't answer my question !

So if someone stole your
phone and then hit you, would you still feel that it’s just stuff? I’m sure you’d just let it go …

That's a massive assumption. I grew up working in my family's shops. I know what is like to have my own business. And I know what it's like to have something stolen from under my nose. BUT none of that justifies potentially deadly force for shoplifting. It's completely disproportionate. And a business should have some wiggle room to cover shrinkage because it's going to happen unfortunately no matter how much CCTV, strategically placed mirrors and security you have.

And IDK if someone is already acting up I'm not going to get into an altercation for something that costs £24 retail. Especially as the profit from £24 is not going to pay for any time I would have to take off to deal with an investigation, potential legal consequences or the bad press. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t think he resorted to violence because of £24. He lost his shit because she hit him in the face with a basket !!

If you hit someone , be prepared to be hit back. I don’t care what sex or colour you are , you’re asking for it once you raise your hand to another person.