Should Shopkeepers Be Permitted To Detain Shoplifters

[CallumDansTransitVan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66790189

With regard to the attached video. Is it acceptable for a shopkeeper to either detain potential shoplifters, or stop them leaving with goods they haven't paid for?

The shoplifter was hitting him as hard as she could with the shopping basket. Really swinging it. What a horrible woman. I have every sympathy for shopkeepers in this situation instead of theives like her

Did you read the thread? That is what I am saying, my proposal is that a shopkeeper/homeowner/wallet-carrier should not have to be held to the standard of 'minimum required force'.

The law should allow a victim to fiercely defend themselves and their property however they see fit. They should not have to be subject to PC Plod turning up hours later and deciding what was and wasn't proportionate with the benefit of hindsight.

My guess is the shop will have to close for good now due to the mass intimidation.

Grabbing someone by the throat is extremely dangerous, and absolutely indefensible in this situation

Beating someone over the head with a basket is a-OK, though?

Nah people will take that too far. The law is about right on this I think

No, you don't! Unless you are a black woman who frequents those shops, it will be a waste of my time on the internet trying to explain or make you understand how those shop owners behave.

I am trying to get another view is all, but of course you are perfectly entitled not to want to enlighten me and I respect that. You've correctly figured out that I am neither Black nor live anywhere near Peckham so I don't know what "these shops" have done wrong.

Of course they should. If the Police don't do anything about it what are they supposed to do, let them just take things. Its their livelihood.

I'd like to hear your take on it too. In my experience, shops that continually give bad service don't last very long. Why would you continue to use them if they are as bad as that?

I would still like to know why shops shouldn't have a no-refund policy. If that's what they want.

I believe the customer wanted to exchange items she had bought in error. Very, very few shops will exchange cosmetics or hair products, because there is is the danger they have been tampered with and so cannot be resold. As true in Weybridge as Peckham.

As @debbrianna doesn’t wish to engage about ‘these shops’, I have read that the ‘problem’ is that they are owned and largely staffed by people whose racial origins are of the Indian subcontinent, but sell products specifically tailored to people of African or Afro Caribbean racial origins. This is resented by by the customers, who presumably believe that the shop keepers are making unreasonable profits.

As @debbrianna doesn’t wish to engage about ‘these shops’, I have read that the ‘problem’ is that they are owned and largely staffed by people whose racial origins are of the Indian subcontinent, but sell products specifically tailored to people of African or Afro Caribbean racial origins. This is resented by by the customers, who presumably believe that the shop keepers are making unreasonable profits.

Isn't that racism? 🤔

Yes, that's why we're all circling round it

I don't want to assume what anyone "meant" unless it's something they've said themselves, but admit I'm somewhat uncomfortable about the use of "those shops"

I'll gladly take that back if the PP's visited every one of them, but as it stands it's a bit too close to "those people" for me, and I find generalisations like this better avoided - especially since this incident has kicked off far too much online racist filth about asian shopkeepers,

did you read what i read: that is psycopathic

Thank goodness that isn't allowed.

literally nobody has said that is ok

Reasonable and proportionate. He is twice the size she is - you're telling me he couldn't have "disarmed" her?

He went for the throat.

If i understand some of the subtext about these shops, there is a certain element of racism involved (towards customers) but I'm not of either community.

Yes, EVERYBODY ( shopkeepers and the general public ) should begin to detain / eject shoplifters EVERY time a crime is committed.

Stock which is stolen is a retail loss which WE all pay for in the selling prices set by retailers.

Agree that a few staff members can do very little if there are no trained shop security guards - but generally; the number of decent law abiding shoppers outnumber the thieves. It is now all of our problem, not somebody else's problem.

Wherever possible, everyone in a store should draw attention to shoplifters - loudly - and shame them out of the store or physically apprehend them/ prevent them from leaving with the stolen items if possible.

We do not steal in this country. It is against the law AND socially unacceptable. If that's not the case, then let's change the law to make stealing OK!

It can't be left up to the police to set the standards of decency in society - it is up to ALL OF US. Are we only decent people because the police make sure we are? Are people really so scummy and disgusting that the only reason they don't steal is the worry of being caught?

Cannot believe that we as a country are normalising shoplifting and theft. Stealing is a crime. It is against the law we all vote for.

Criminals will always steal but we can't dilute the law or excuse poor standards of behaviour in society in the hopes that lowering the bar means they will steal less or behave better. It is not how we want to live or raise our children.

You would think all this goes without saying - but to weaponise/ excuse a criminal for socio-political reasons in the Peckham example is just another example of what the majority of good, decent people will not stay silent about for very much longer. Sad to think, but I genuinely believe that more people are going to stand up for themselves and defend their properties and businesses.

It is very simple: grabbing people around the throat for suspected shoplifting is disproportionate and not to be waved away with 'but stealing'

He didn't grab her round the throat for shoplifting, he grabbed her round the throat as she was beating him round the head.

£24 of products only once a day is a lot, I imagine it’s much more. Times that by day and weeks and a year works out a lot. Why should someone work hard and jyst
let people steal from them. Surely don’t steal then this wouldn’t have happened. He’s not white either, so the profiling isn’t applicable in this instant!

In the bits & pieces I've seen on the news etc, The racism seems to be aimed at the shopkeepers from some in the Black community.

One of the news interviews I watched had a black woman condemning and claiming racism as she felt watched for potential shoplifting. You then read that the vast majority of the shop customers were from the Black community, it stands to reason that the likeliest shoplifters will come from that demographic.

Standupfordecency
I'm with you. I suspect the lack of policing or court punishment for what they seem to consider minor crimes, is going to end with an increase of vigilante type punishments. That is a terrifying thought.

I've seen an update on the shop on IG. There were crowds of protestors outside sellotaping signs onto the shutters.

The comments underneath were 90% along the lines of "we need these Asian-owned shops to go, start shopping at Black-owned shops". I never knew it was such an issue! But very ugly.

it like Uganda never happened.

Puts a fresh light on Black Lives Matter doesn't it?