To wonder if there’s a woman who hasn’t put up with unacceptable sexual harassment in the workplace?

[Ponderence]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66775015

just reading this…..

and actually been thinking about this a lot recently. Have had 3 male bosses in my life. Was thinking that 2 have technically sexually harassed me (putting ice down my top, doing the tongue action between fingers, staring, inuendo comments- all while being ‘nice guys’) the one who didn’t Was seeing a lady in the office. Still work with the latest and to be honest I avoid bei nd alone with him cos I feel uncomfortable around him ( I’m in my 40s I’m not particularly worried about him but likewise I guess I should have to avoid a collleavue because I feel like I might be stared at)

these blokes are married with kids as I’m sure many of these ones are in the article.

are they all doing it? Is my husband sexually harassing people at work? Is theee a woman who hasn’t dealt with this sh*t?

m just realised my title makes it look like some sexual harassment might be acceptable. Obvs I don’t think that.

is the only way of avoiding it by not working with men?

wtf?

I've never experienced it at work. But I haven't worked that much compared to most people my age.

Have experienced it in other contexts.

It's interesting because I worked in a very male dominated industry from 18-40yo (from mid 80s) and I'd have said no at the time. Nothing ever happened that made me so uncomfortable I couldn't laugh it off. But I did do a lot of laughing things off that I wouldn't stand for now.

I also think it was and still is often so endemic "we" don't notice it, it's just what we're used to.

I’m sorry you interpreted it as victim blaming. The reality is that you often hear women saying is things like “I thought it was just something women had to put up with”, “I never reported it”, “I never said anything”, “I laughed it off.” And often that’s through a lack of confidence about speaking up or that they’ll be taken seriously or believed above the perpetrator. Acknowledging that it’s exactly those women who predatory men will seek out, knowing they’re likely to get away with their behaviour, isn’t saying that it’s women’s faults.

I am not sure I agree, I don't like when we are portrayed as clueless idiots, or when we are said to be "born-victims".

Yep. Loads. aged 17 in a shop, colleague flashed me. Cinema boss climbed on top of me in bed after a work night out and stuck his tongue down my throat. Working with horses 2 old men constantly propositioning me, sexual innuendos.
Also had a teacher write inappropriate and suggestive notes on my homework. Youth alone seems to be an open invitation to some types of men.

Never been sexually harassed at work but have been outside of work

Boundaries and confidence my arse

im 60 and retired

im not overtly attractive, always a bit overweight . I’m certainly confident at work- was doing senior leadership roles. Led teams and projects.

i worked in manufacturing- shop floor interaction and very male dominated. But for a global USA company with policies and procedures all over the place and cery
good HR structure

yet,

• Handy bloke that would creep up behind you sitting down and give you a shoulder massage. Funny he never did it with blokes. I told him very sharply to keep his hands to himself , and I got berated as he was only trying to alleviate my stress. Tried it on with the few female staff all the time
• had a sexual heavy breather/wanker internal phone call. Knew it was coming form one of meeting rooms on shop floor side. He knew what I was wearing , was masturbating about my breasts apparently- so had been in the shift meetings that day . He kept doing this for around 2 months, inrefualrly I stopped answering calls from meeting rooms and got a bollocking for one of managers who was genuinely trying to get hold of me

you’ve done a fine bit of victim blaming there 🤦🏼‍♀️

you do realise that some men get off on shaming and humiliating “powerful “ women - it’s is , and always has been, about their control

When I was in my 20s in marketing at a big pharma company, I once had a boss who told a group of drunk sales managers that I would sleep with anyone of them who made their sales targets. They all thought this was really funny but I was horrified. He apologised the next day, as did the female sales director who was there at the time. I left shortly after. He is now a CEO in the US and I have occasionally considered writing to his company to let them know.

I experienced it a huge number of times over the years but that was mostly the 1970s-90s. You never said anything then as you’d be laughed out of the managers office and told to get a sense a humour.

My last ‘proper’ job circa 2020s none, it’s a sackable offence now isn’t it? Although I am nearing retirement age so I can’t speak for younger people’s experiences.

@AgnesX ‘equal opportunity shits’ 🤣🤣🤣

I don't think it's that at all, but that things become normal. I mean, when I started work you regularly saw job ads for a "bubbly girl Friday". That wasn't OK, but it was very widespread and therefore accepted by most.

The whole expectation of wearing heels, it took a long time to feel able to push back on that.

The over familiar boss was just one of those things.

Etc etc

I’ve never experienced it I think it’s definitely not the majority.

I don’t see the problem with “bubbly girl Friday”. Nobody wants a miserable fucker working for them do they? Even if they are good at their job.

I'm in my late 50s, the only harassment I witnessed was that of the office 'boy' , ( late 20s self confessed virgin, never had a girlfriend lad) he was mercilessly ribbed by the older staff both male and female in the mid 1980s.
I now work in an all male team who treats me respectfully.

Never been groped, assaulted, or harassed.

I’ve never been sexually harassed at work or witnessed it.

When I was working in the NHS my boss was horrendous, rubbing himself against me when I was in the small kitchen, touching me when in his car, lurid comments etc. He was mid forties I was 19. I had to keep a record of his actions before HR would take notice. Turns out he’d been moved in from another area for doing the same thing. He employed me, so chose his next victim. He got another promotion and moved to another area. As a now 50 year old I realise how shocking the whole process was.

So what's the male equivalent and why are they specifying a "girl"? Apart from anything else presumably they wanted adults.

But this is exactly what I mean. It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that we don't notice.

You must be about the same age as me. Bubbly Girl Fridays indeed! I never applied for those as I didn’t see myself as particularly ‘bubbly’ and always felt they wanted a Barbara Windsor Carry On type personality (young, blonde, giggly, flirty etc). Can you imagine a job advertising that now 😬

Mountain meet molehill on the girl/woman front.

I also don’t see anything wrong with specifying which sex you want.

No, I've never experienced it in the workplace but all of my employed working life was spent teaching in primary schools where the vast majority of staff were women.
I am now self-employed and have experienced it twice with two different clients I worked with (who I never worked with again after that).

I once worked with this slimy letch who bad mouthed women, including his wife, and peeves on everyone. He once told me to “take my shirt off”.

I then went to a friends house for dinner, and her lovely, kind, brother in law was there.

I don’t think I need to fill in the gaps.

I agree. I have been working in "proper" jobs since 1996 and have had one person smack my bottom. That's once in 27 years of working (and I immediately told him it was unacceptable - and it was back in 1998).

I have to say though that I find it astonishing that men would assault female surgeons while they are carrying out procedures. It's one thing doing it generally in the workplace - there are loads of pricks around - but while you are actually doing something that requires precision and concentration and if it goes wrong you could mess up the operation? That is a completely different level of prickhood.

Bar being catcalled once (and it was directed more so at my friend rather than me), and a strange man who spoke no English trying to touch my chest when asking for directions (still not entirely sure if he meant to touch me there or was reaching for my shoulder and missed), I’ve never been sexually harassed in all of my 20-something years. I’ve certainly never been harassed at work, or in any of my previous jobs.

Must be something wrong with me 🤷🏼‍♀️

They wouldn't advertise it but it's still somewhat there.

My DH and I finished our degrees at around the same time and both applied for temp work. Despite us both having similar degrees, without exception I was put into receptionist type work because firms like a young woman for that and my now DH was put forward for (higher paid) data processing type work