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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

List of rules for visitors

614 replies

WhyamIprocrastinatingonhere · 10/09/2023 17:33

My friend has just had a baby and her husband has sent out a list of rules before we visit. No visitors for at least 10 days. No advice to be given by visitors or sharing their experiences. Only stay an hour. Visits to be arranged in advance to fit around breastfeeding. There’s an Amazon gift list, if we wish. Wash your hands. Get changed if vaping or smoking. You probably won’t get to hold baby. Don’t kiss baby. Give baby back immediately to mum if crying etc etc.

I really was looking forward to going round to this friend’s house as we are super close, but now I will worry about saying the wrong thing, or offering unwanted advice. Or what if the baby is eating its hands or nuzzling, do I give it back to my friend and say it’s hungry but she will be offended because she will take that as unwanted advice.
I have 3 kids and breastfed them all, but I didn’t produce enough milk when I had the first. If someone else hadn’t told me about cluster feeding to get the milk supply going, I might have given up. Also, I could never arrange times for people to visit around breastfeeding because it just doesn’t work like that with many breastfed babies.
When I had my kids I wanted people to share my happiness and to meet my baby and have cuddles. I find it strange when people produce lists like this or don’t want people holding their babies. AIBU that this is too much? And I had a horrible Labour and then a c section with 1 baby and 1 child was in NICU for a bit.
By The way, this friend came round my house absolutely loads when my babies were small and used to stay all day and all evening. I never minded. I thought it was lovely that she took such an interest in my kids, but now she won’t let anyone even stay more than an hour or give advice, with her own baby. So now I think I might stay away and not have the same relationship with her kids as she’s had with mine, because I am too worried about doing or saying the wrong thing and I shall feel like I am not really wanted there.

OP posts:
avemariiiaa · 10/09/2023 21:30

Balls to that, they are not the first or last to have a baby. They sound pathetic. They will be the only losers in the long run.

My sister behaved in a similar way and ended up alienating the whole family.

They wouldn't even allow grandparents to visit for a month.

Their baby is now a year old, and despite living quite close to all their families most people have only spent time with the baby once or twice.

They wouldn't allow photos.

Then when they did allow photos they wouldn't allow any social media posts (they post things themselves but specifically told family they couldn't) then allowed new friends they met a NCT groups to share photos. Fucking batshit.

Now they post photos quite often and obviously assume everyone will just follow suit now that fad has worn off but absolutely nobody in the family will ever share a photo of their child to make a point now, unless they give permission.

They behaved like such a pair of twats and now nobody can be bothered.

We are a nice family. Not overbearing. Wouldn't ever turn up unannounced. Nobody gives unsolicited advice. Everyone is very chilled out.

Their baby was the eighth cousin/grandchild in the family and they were very much welcome to visit whenever they wished and be a part of those babies lives from birth so it's all very bizarre and sad that they have created this atmosphere and divide.

Tandora · 10/09/2023 21:33

allhellcantstopusnow · 10/09/2023 20:34

No visitors for at least ten days - entirely up to them, plenty of people talk about 'pulling up the drawer-bridge' post birth.

No advice to be given by visitors or sharing their experiences - advice, unless asked for, is not advice, it's a lecture. People have a weird compulsion with pregnant women and then newborns, they like to tell them their horror stories of terrible labours and stitches and no sleep and reflux and not having any time to think for the first 7 years. Wildly unhelpful.

Only stay an hour - not unreasonable, it's knackering being the mum of a newborn.

Visits to be arranged in advance to fit around breastfeeding - establishing and learning to feed is often very hard, quite painful and tricky, not wanting to do that with an audience is again, not unreasonable.

There’s an Amazon gift list, if we wish - very organised, no wasted money and no 94 baby outfits in the same size they'll never wear.

Wash your hands - you should do this anyway.

Get changed if vaping or smoking - you should also do this anyway.

You probably won’t get to hold baby - nobody visits a newborn with the solid expectation of whipping it out of the mum's arms, if you do, have you thought of maybe a puppy?

Don’t kiss baby - this 100% shouldn't be happening.

Give baby back immediately to mum if crying - general common sense.

Presumably you have an issue because it contradicts your expectations of how you wanted the visit to go. It's not about you, it's about them.

Similarly, the best visits I had were from people who showed up, made sure I had a full bottle of water, a cup of tea, a snack, was comfy, then they put a lasagne they'd made in the fridge for later, hoovered the stairs and put a wash on and then left. Absolutely brilliant and continues to be the best most supportive friend I have.

But Can’t you see how obnoxious and self absorbed it is to send people a list of rules like this?!

If people come to visit , they are generously giving up their time , energy and effort to come and support you, because they care. I’m sure they have more interesting and preferable things to do with their day. Your baby is really not that interesting,
you are not doing any one a favour by letting them in the house.

If people bring gifts, that’s entirely of their own generosity and should not be expected , and certainly they shouldn’t feel obliged to buy something on a list!!

if you can’t offer some basic curtesy and respect in return, it’s best not to invite people round and wait until you are ready not to be a thoroughly obnoxious human again.

phoenixrosehere · 10/09/2023 21:33

I've only known one couple who had crazy rules after having a baby , they wouldn't even allow the grandparents a visit for weeks. Then when the baby was older would moan they had no offers of babysitting

There is no guarantee that grandparents would offer to babysit regardless of how much they get to visit or not. Countless threads about grandparents and lack of interest has proven that as well as the thought that they don’t have to offer if they don’t want to regardless.

LittleBearPad · 10/09/2023 21:34

Justonemorecoffeeplease · 10/09/2023 21:06

Apologies. I didn’t realise you were aware of the facts. 🙄

If it is PND then there’s nothing we can do on an internet forum and that should be addressed by those close to her coming from a place of knowledge of what the situation actually is.

My somewhat flippant reply was to reassure the OP that she’s not being unreasonable in finding that list a bit over the top.

Show quote history

No one is asking you to do anything.

The OP is the only one in a position to do anything given she’s a close friend.

avemariiiaa · 10/09/2023 21:34

And while most of the list is generally common sense and stuff most people are aware of, there's absolutely no need to send a passive aggressive list.

saraclara · 10/09/2023 21:37

If people come to visit , they are generously giving up their time , energy and effort to come and support you, because they care. I’m sure they have more interesting and preferable things to do with their day. Your baby is really not that interesting,
you are not doing any one a favour by letting them in the house.

Exactly. Beyond the grandparents, and (sometimes) the aunts and uncles, no-one is that invested in your baby. They visit because it's a nice gesture.to see how mum is and welcome the child.

A list like this just makes people feel unwelcome, or that they've been judged to be the sort of people who need to be lectured on their behaviour. So why would they bother?

saraclara · 10/09/2023 21:39

phoenixrosehere · 10/09/2023 21:33

I've only known one couple who had crazy rules after having a baby , they wouldn't even allow the grandparents a visit for weeks. Then when the baby was older would moan they had no offers of babysitting

There is no guarantee that grandparents would offer to babysit regardless of how much they get to visit or not. Countless threads about grandparents and lack of interest has proven that as well as the thought that they don’t have to offer if they don’t want to regardless.

But I imagine that if you've been issued with a set of rules from day one, you're going to be a bit nervous about the number of rules you be presented with for babysitting the child.

AhNowTed · 10/09/2023 21:46

avemariiiaa · 10/09/2023 21:34

And while most of the list is generally common sense and stuff most people are aware of, there's absolutely no need to send a passive aggressive list.

Exactly. I'd be rolling my eyes and giving it a miss.

Who'd put themselves though that. Being monitored.. No thanks.

A bloody LIST.. is this the thing now?

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 10/09/2023 21:53

I have had a baby this year and I think this is so big on social media now- lists of how to support the mother. I wouldn't take it personally and by best guess is this is aimed at the in laws or a certain friend who had a filthy dog or something but they're circulating to everyone so that they're not unfairly targeting. They might also feel awkward or rude asking guests directly to wash hands or change if they've vaped. I hated it when visitors literally took my baby off my or started feeding him but didn't have the words to object in the moment. It's horrible being expected to pass the newborn round a room of people who might have COVID etc as they've all said they're here for a cuddle

If it's a good friend and she doesn't normally annoy you I would humour her and I would say let me know when you're ready, if you want to visit her. Then on your way say you've read the list and please do feel free to let me know anything I can do to make you feel comfortable. She will thank you and if there is a time to indulge someone's anxieties it's when they're a new mum. Be kind. Just because you didn't worry in the same way you'll have some boundaries at some point (eg you might not want to go away for the weekend for her bday next year) that you'll expect her to understand.

phoenixrosehere · 10/09/2023 21:59

saraclara · 10/09/2023 21:39

But I imagine that if you've been issued with a set of rules from day one, you're going to be a bit nervous about the number of rules you be presented with for babysitting the child.

Show quote history

Depends on the rules but point still stands that even if you’ve given no rules whatsoever or even the most sensible of rules, there is no guarantee there will be offers to babysit.

I have no issue with the list given and if it’s my best friend, I would know them better than anyone and would feel comfortable enough to talk to them about it. Anyone else, I still wouldn’t be bothered because it’s not my baby and if I really wanted to visit them I would simply abide by it. Maybe because I have been a childcare provider and have received lists and instructions, it doesn’t phase me.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 10/09/2023 22:01

avemariiiaa · 10/09/2023 21:34

And while most of the list is generally common sense and stuff most people are aware of, there's absolutely no need to send a passive aggressive list.

But so many people aren't aware.
I had good friends visiting telling me I was doing nappies wrong, why my breastfeeding wasn't working well, that I should be in a routine, that I should give up trying to breatfeed, that I should do this or that - all of that compounded is so stressful for a new mum who is hormonal and has very low confidence. If she wants advice on any of that she can ask for that.

I also had visitors coming for cuddles with unwashed hands who have pets and vape- yuck. You feel so rude saying 'wash your hands first' but so guilty to baby if you don't. It's hard to say to someone's face 'don't kiss my baby you might have herpes'

I definitley broke most of these 'rules' before I had children and visited friends babies as no one told me- I would have appreciated a list tbh but I'm a very kind and thoughtful and understanding friend.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 10/09/2023 22:03

avemariiiaa · 10/09/2023 21:34

And while most of the list is generally common sense and stuff most people are aware of, there's absolutely no need to send a passive aggressive list.

I had no idea about most of these before I had my own baby. I wish my friends had shared that info with me - a list would have felt less personal too like they're not saying I probably have herpes personally but they're aware there is a high risk that lots of adults do. I have definitely given friends little babies kisses before as I had no idea there was such a risk.

Womencanlift · 10/09/2023 22:05

Out of all the babies I have known to be born, only one parent has acted in a very MN way ie don’t visit, don’t give any blue/pink gifts etc.

Every other mother was asking happily when are we visiting. And nobody took the piss with overstaying

If I got a message like that, especially with the grabby Amazon list part, I would stay away and if asked later why am I not interested in their child I would say I didn’t want to break a rule. As a pp said this friend will be in here at some point moaning that nobody is interested in her baby no doubt

iamwhatiam23 · 10/09/2023 22:17

Sounds like my ds and dil! Absolutely neurotic the pair of them and have pissed off no end of family members with their control freakery and rules!

CoreopsisEverywhere · 10/09/2023 22:39

I would ignore the gift list and send a WhatsApp message saying: Congratulations on the safe arrival of X. Look forward to meeting him/her as and when you feel up to visitors. If you need anything just shout.

I’d leave the ball in their court as to when to invite you, and would take a gift of my choice at that stage.

hopefully one day they’ll realise how batshit this is.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 10/09/2023 22:44

Most of what is on the list is just the advice that people give on MN though - in terms of what visitors should and should do / expect to happen 😂 I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d been on here, seen some of the horror stories re visitors, and the advice given out and panicked.

The only thing that’s really jarring to me is the Amazon wish list - that’s just crass.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 10/09/2023 22:47

avemariiiaa · 10/09/2023 21:34

And while most of the list is generally common sense and stuff most people are aware of, there's absolutely no need to send a passive aggressive list.

I agrée with this - most of it is just common sense, eg give back to mum when needed.

The list sounds clumsy and misjudged rather than as awful as people are making out.

evuscha · 10/09/2023 22:57

I agree with this and with the (clearly small) minority of PPs who actually see nothing wrong with these rules. And as much as these should be pretty standard - people not coming in sick, stinking of cigarettes, hogging the baby and giving out unsolicited parenting advice - it is clearly not standard for many visitors, Mumsnet is full of such threads afterall 🤷‍♀️
If OP doesn’t do any of these obnoxious things, then she shouldn’t be offended 🤷‍♀️ (and I doubt offering help with breastfeeding is what they mean with unwanted advice, it’s more the “breast is best/you have to breastfeed” when mum decided to do formula, or vice versa, or “you hold the baby too much, he will be spoiled” type of judgy advice)

Tandora · 10/09/2023 23:01

evuscha · 10/09/2023 22:57

I agree with this and with the (clearly small) minority of PPs who actually see nothing wrong with these rules. And as much as these should be pretty standard - people not coming in sick, stinking of cigarettes, hogging the baby and giving out unsolicited parenting advice - it is clearly not standard for many visitors, Mumsnet is full of such threads afterall 🤷‍♀️
If OP doesn’t do any of these obnoxious things, then she shouldn’t be offended 🤷‍♀️ (and I doubt offering help with breastfeeding is what they mean with unwanted advice, it’s more the “breast is best/you have to breastfeed” when mum decided to do formula, or vice versa, or “you hold the baby too much, he will be spoiled” type of judgy advice)

Hogging the baby 😂😂. Fgs

Tandora · 10/09/2023 23:05

CoreopsisEverywhere · 10/09/2023 22:39

I would ignore the gift list and send a WhatsApp message saying: Congratulations on the safe arrival of X. Look forward to meeting him/her as and when you feel up to visitors. If you need anything just shout.

I’d leave the ball in their court as to when to invite you, and would take a gift of my choice at that stage.

hopefully one day they’ll realise how batshit this is.

This is what I would do, expect without the offer to visit. Just congratulate them on their baby, let them know you are here for them if they need anything, leave it there, ignore the list and get on with enjoying your life as you please ☺️ x

LadyBird1973 · 10/09/2023 23:14

A lot of whether this is offensive is in the delivery. There are nice ways to say to people that they are feeling anxious about the baby and would people mind doing X before they visit. But they can't reasonably make rules for everything, present them in a dictatorial manner and expect to keep their friends!

This stuff comes about because women get told on sites like MN, that once they pop out a baby, theirs is the only opinion which matters and it's perfectly okay to alienate everyone they know!

The world is also full of very annoying people who expect loads of extra consideration but have a history of not giving them hat sane level of consideration to others.

Personally I wouldn't fancy visiting them - the whole 'don't give advice or discuss experiences' bit is far too controlling. No one gets to dictate what other people talk about in normal conversation.
I would probably text my friend and ask if she was okay because her husband's list is coming across as really rude and they are in danger of alienating their friends.

goodenoughmum88 · 10/09/2023 23:20

Hack into their Amazon wish list and replace everything with parenting books…

72EasyLessons · 11/09/2023 00:02

WhyamIprocrastinatingonhere · 10/09/2023 18:25

Can I ask why you didn’t see anyone? We’re you ok? Might help me you setstanden my friend.

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Difficult birth, infected CS scar, milk never came in, difficult baby, tiny London flat, and the majority of our friends were at a distance, and all our families were overseas (I’d only started to live full time in London after I went on mat leave at 36 weeks after working abroad for the previous decade) — so it wasn’t local people dropping in for half an hour, it was hosting family who needed to be picked up from the airport and shepherded around.

Plus i just wanted to concentrate on figuring out parenting with just the three of us for a bit. I’m a sociable person who invests a lot in my friendships and have always held open house for family, but I wasn’t in the humour for company when I’d just given birth, and it wasn’t like the baby’s newness was going to go stale at three weeks old.

Lentilweaver · 11/09/2023 00:19

I would be perfectly happy with a friend saying they didn't want to see me after the birth, until they have recovered. Especially in these days of video calls and messaging.

artimesiasfootsteps · 11/09/2023 03:25

I think lists like these will nearly always be directed at one difficult or multiple difficult family members.

I wish we'd sent out something like this to our inlaws, who peak covid to a winter born baby, took off their masks for photos, kissed the baby, overstayed their welcome, dropped in without asking and insisted on coming in and waking our baby, non-stop comments and critiques of everything from the baby's clothes (secondhand how shocking 🙄) to my choice to breastfeed (mil critical because she couldn't) coming heavily perfumed or doggy, taking millions of selfies with the baby ignoring we existed, talking at us non stop without asking after us at all. My health visitor sent them packing a couple of times for staying too long and disrupting breastfeeding.

I had an infected c section, ill from blood loss and had these idiots thinking our house was a party zone. A list like this actually would have been useful.

However my friends were angels, brought food for us, asked how we were doing, kept visits short and left leaving us feeling supported and our spirits buoyed.

I think the Amazon gift registry is grabby though. My inlaws bought total rubbish, but I photographed the baby in the items to thank them with a cute picture, then donated them to the local women's shelter.