Daughter has wrecked the walls

[whatthehell1e]

8 year old daughter in a tantrum as I told her off for her behaviour yesterday (she painted the wardrobe in my room with her paints). I walked upstairs and she has sprayed her room, my room, hallway and her brother’s wall in baby oil. Whole brand new bottle. I have wiped it with towels but it’s not coming off. It looks like it has but after 5th attempt the wall dries but oil marks very visible. I’m really stressed. We cannot afford to decorate it all and it looks horrendous. I actually thought it was damp before I saw the empty oil bottle.

Maybe get her involved in your next DIY project what colour did she paint the wardrobe

Take photos of any damage and email it to yourself with a standard subject line. I've done that for years so I have proof of all the damage mine has done for CAMHS.
Never mind baby oil on the wall, I've had red nail varnish on white walls.

And yes, a "naughty" step isn't that effective for a neuro diverse child. Then when you get to a certain level of parenting class they tell you that anyway 🙄.

My son has recently had an ASD and ADHD diagnosis and this is something he struggles with. He can play very nicely with his sister but if she doesn’t want to join in he gets upset. I have a similar age gap to you. Talk to the SENCo at the school and raise the ASD concerns, I’m a teacher and there is lots of issue around girls masking in school so it gets missed. You can go to the GP too but it is easier to get a referral for ASD testing and diagnosis if the school initiate and support it so try them first.

It sounds like you have some of the issues we have with sanctions for behaviour, my youngest does the time out, says sorry and life continues; my eldest (ND one) rages and lashes out and we have to deal with him in a different way (which is what we were told on the courses we’ve been on with the ASD team since his diagnosis)

Yes. They seem to have missed that the OP has tried clear boundaries, the usual parent reasoning, confiscating screens/toys, cancelling their holiday, naughty step and they are not working. At age 8, this has been going on for years, more of the same parenting that would be good for a regular child is likely to continue to not to work and to continue to worsen her behaviour.

They are assuming it is bad parenting plus a naughty child, and so are telling OP off almost. OP sounds to me like a really engaged and good parent who has tried every bit of advice in every book going and is now seeking advice because her daughter is a bit of an enigma and she’s concerned.

I and others are seeing clues her daughter may not be a regular child, but potentially have autism and that would be one explanation for why good parenting still results in a naughty child. It is also the most common reason for it in that age group too. And there have been a few clues that fit the pattern making it worth looking into further.

Autism isn’t an excuse, it’s only the beginning as autistic children can be taught to be well behaved, you just have to go about it in a completely different way from a regular child. You also have to keep in mind that they often are emotionally very fragile and tend to act 3-4yrs younger than their chronological age so if her 8yr old is autistic, then she has the maturity and awareness of consequences that a 4-5yr old does. That changes the baby oil incident from calculated destructive revenge to just an angry outburst with no thought as to the damage. It changes the wardrobe painting to knowing it’s not a good idea to paint on furniture to perhaps a surprise present from a child thinking mum would love my art on her wardrobe to look at every day.

Fairy liquid, you need to dissolve the oil

I hope you keep her iPad off her for a long time and not just a week. If it was me I would re decorate brothers and hall but leave hers! She has to live with the damage she has caused

All behaviour has a reason and it is easy to go straight to adhd/asd as the cause but if your daughter is behaving and managing well at school in all domains this is unlikely.

it is more likely parenting, and her feeling that some needs are not being met. This takes some serious self reflection and honesty by parents which is difficult. It’s not easy to accept we are not getting it right or that our children have different needs and parenting is not ‘one size fits all’. Think about the minor details, for example if you say ‘in a minute’ all the time or are there times she feels not heard, are you critical? Parents don’t have to be perfect but she is a child and some of your language around her is a little negative and concerning.

it also sounds you have difficulties with the father - be honest about this with yourself children are very attuned to this and she could be sensing this.
No idea about the walls sorry! But personally would not sacrifice the family holiday just to paint the walls, and this could be an indication where some of your difficulties stem from.

No iPad for a week seems a really easy punishment. I’d sell the iPad and use the money towards a professional cleaning service/redecoration. Then she earns some points towards a new one at Christmas through consistent good behaviour over the next few months. Something like this is extreme bad behaviour and you need to respond appropriately so she doesn’t think wrecking your house is a proportionate go-to for a telling off!

So sad to see so many posters outraged by your daughter's behaviour but with zero curiosity to understand why she did it....

It's not a one-off, you have ongoing concerns about her behaviour. She has NEVER played nicely with her younger sibling....My daughter is 8, she has real "little madam" moments, but this seems way off the scale to me. There's something going on here and you need to investigate.

I think you have to explore the possibility of Neuro diversity, as well as psychological issues. Read up on Autism and ADHD and see if it rings any bells. And definitely speak to school, but with concrete examples and don't allow them to just say "she's fine at school". Autistic girls are renowned for masking at school and exploding at home.

And have a conversation with your husband - you need to be a team.

Good luck

I can’t offer any help regarding your daughter op, it sounds a really difficult situation💐
On the walls front though the only thing I found that made any difference to the waxing oil the builders splashed every fucking where when stripping and treating our homes wooden beams was blasting it with hot air and then pressing kitchen towel to it to soak it up. It took forever, and there was still some residual staining, so I had to paint (3 ducking coats) the room to hide it😔
I really hope posting here gets you some support and helpful advice going forward with your daughter.

I feel for you, OP, both about the walls and the behaviour. Just as concerning is your husband's behaviour, tbh. He sounds like a completely absent parent. Is there any point in you being together?

I hope you are able to talk to someone about your daughter's behaviour. I know health visitors are only for early years but I wonder if it's worth trying? She might also be ND and just masks at school and then lets it all out at home?

It does sounds really extreme and like she is lashing out at home as she has to try so hard at school. Certainly some mental health issues there and it sounds like a cry for attention from an unhappy girl and not just mere naughtiness.

I wouldn't be focusing on punishment but would be taking her to the GP and seeking private help if possible - CAMHS wait is at least three years in most areas then a lot parents find them utterly hopeless when they eventually get "help".

OP

please look this up, and bring it up with the GP.

a lot of people are suggesting Autism but the above sounds more likely from the various examples of behaviour that you’ve shared.

you may need to start recording her behaviours to get closer to the experts taking it seriously.

She certainly sounds very angry so I think i'd be trying to get to the bottom of that. Taking her ipad off her isn't going to help. It's got nothing to do with what she's done. She needs to learn to make amends, so helping clean the wall or something like that. But also try and talk to her and work out where it's come from - is it you she has anger towards or soemthing else bothering her and this is how it is manifesting? Is she having issues at school with friends that you're not aware of and she is bottling up perhaps? Sorry i can't offer any help with the walls- I'm sure google can help though x

'Elbow Grease' will break up some of it (works on clothing too). Oil can bind to other materials, so may need to be sealed before repainting.

You are joking? All homework has been on tablets since Reception at our school (with the exception of reading and spelling). I have two extremely well behaved children, doing brilliant at school who love their ipads. They would choose that over watching tv (which I certainly did plenty of growing up in the 90’s).

As long as Ipad usage is monitored and they do plenty of other activities (my kids love long walks, swimming, climbing, seeing friends), then there’s no problem. Good luck if you dont have an ipad with school age children.

I would raise it as soon as possible so she can keep an eye and she might start to notice little things at school that may have otherwise gone under the radar.

My SD sounds very much like your daughter, she will be 8 in a couple of months and last week she purposely peed all over her bedroom, including in her sisters water bottle. She will make threats to her sisters (tell them she's going to kill them one day etc) she has smeared make up all over the walls, argues and refuses to do as she's asked, lies and lies about absolutely everything. She's very vindictive in her behaviour. Seems to show no remorse for anything.

She has been referred for ADHD testing but I honestly don't think that would explain the more vindictive/worrying behaviour. But you are not alone op, we're a bit lost in how to deal with this too

Just a note on the stain blocker spray, as I just used it on some water damage. Please don't use it, get the stuff you can paint with a brush or roller instead. The spray went absolutely everywhere in a highly toxic white cloud, and I only sprayed for a few seconds! I have a little toddler, so stopped immediately. Ended up spraying it into a cup outdoors and using that to paint with a brush. But oh so smelly, and it is very toxic. Good luck.

Could white Vinegar work. I use to tackle greasy smears
Use in a spray bottle might help. Spray it on and leave it a few minutes

Lots of people crediting DD with a knowledge of the properties of baby oil which is a ridiculous assumption when you think about it.

You DD sounds exactly like my DS9. He is on the pathway to a diagnosis of autism and/or ADHD. I believe he has a PDA (pathological demand avoidance) profile.

It sounds like your DD is masking at school, and that makes the behaviour at home even worse. My DS mask does slip at school though, and that's how I managed to get them to do a referral to the community paediatrician.

Punishments like confiscating technology and the naughty step won't work as they aren't natural consequences. I've found that nothing actually works, and am just waiting for the final assessment before we can get the right support.

I've found The Explosive Child by Dr Ross W. Greene to be quite helpful into gaining some insight of their thought processes.

Redecorate gradually. She has done it upstairs which isn’t too disastrous. I’d be more worried about her painting on your wardrobe?! How on earth did you get it off? And how did she have time to gather all the supplies and do it all without anyone noticing?

I would take this as a cry for help as it is quite extreme behaviour.

Withdrawal of iPad/holiday, naughty step etc seems a sensible way of underlining the gravity of what she has done. A shame DH is not more supportive.

If she is ND then her mental capacity in some areas may be more akin to a toddler and you need to treat her as such.

I would suspect issues have escalated from the birth of her brother when she will have received less support (naturally). It’s now coming to a crisis point.

She needs strong boundaries, routine, visual schedules, visual rules, emotional regulation techniques all of that.

Read up as much as you can, when you can, and reach out for help and support.

Lots available online, and would recommend this book for overview.

—> Women and Girls with Autism Spectrum Disorder: Understanding Life Experiences from Early Childhood to Old Age, by Sarah Hendrickx

I wouldn’t worry about the walls.

If she is ND it is a blessing you are finding out now, rather than she goes through school/Uni/work without support, and ends up being taken advantage of/assaulted or worse due to her vulnerabilities, or being put through the mental health merry go round unnecessarily.

If she is not ND this is a pretty startling wake up call that her needs are not being met. She may need more discipline, time with you, other activities to stimulate her or issues in school addressed.

Let us know how you get on.

My 8 year old Son scribbled on the living room wall in front of me when he was angry last year. It wasnt a massive amount, and I knew we were going to redecorate soon anyway, but I still made him scrub it off. I dont think you can measure whether its worrying behaviour by their age, we all do/say silly things sometimes when we’re emotional, even adults! I do think though that there has to be a consequence for your actions. He hasnt done it again since, it took absolutely ages to clean off!

It sounds like you have fallen into a pattern of behaviour which is just spiralling- you have assigned your DD as the ‘bad’ child and DS as the ‘good’ child -and then when your DD isn’t listening to you then you lose it and shout at her ….

She is copying your behaviour - ‘losing it’ to get your attention.

You need to look at how you can work on improving your relationship with your child.

Have a look at 1,2,3 magic that can be very helpful for establishing house rules and behaviour boundaries. Also, some of this behaviour could indicate ADHD- it might be worth having a chat with School and GP.

*Bean83ts

I hope you keep her iPad off her for a long time and not just a week. If it was me I would re decorate brothers and hall but leave hers! She has to live with the damage she has caused*

I have ADHD and if you think it would make me behave better doing all that you don’t know the mind of a ND child

I had all the sanctions and corporal punishment but could go without pretty much anything as I never grew attached to anything. I could live in an empty room and still be entertained because my mind was like watching 1000 tv’s all at once and corporal punishment at school didn’t bother me at all as I got used to it.

Punishing a ND child with sanctions is like punishing a vegetarian by withholding meat from their diet.