Daughter has wrecked the walls

[whatthehell1e]

8 year old daughter in a tantrum as I told her off for her behaviour yesterday (she painted the wardrobe in my room with her paints). I walked upstairs and she has sprayed her room, my room, hallway and her brother’s wall in baby oil. Whole brand new bottle. I have wiped it with towels but it’s not coming off. It looks like it has but after 5th attempt the wall dries but oil marks very visible. I’m really stressed. We cannot afford to decorate it all and it looks horrendous. I actually thought it was damp before I saw the empty oil bottle.

I have read and re read it several times and do not see any threatening behaviour from the DD towards her mum (the OP) that would cause any concern of violence toward the OP or the little brother.

It would vastly help me if you could describe what you are inferring from the post because I am not seeing it.

I am seeing an 8 yr old girl that is struggling with the very common problem of emotions dysregulation that is more pronounced in children with autism and/or ADHD due to their relative immaturity compared to their peers. This often manifests in crying or anger (meltdowns). The child is aware she cries more than she ‘should’. She’s not stupid.

I am also seeing either or a mix of the lack of ability to read faces and social cues(autism) and/or rejection sensitivity (ADHD)leading the DD to an overlapping reactionary behaviour pattern whereby she genuinely believes she is being treated nastily/poorly/unfairly when the OP isn’t intending that at all. The child is aware her feelings are somehow “wrong” and may get her mum in trouble- she’s been told this.

I haven't said anything about concern if violence towards her brother? So you must be mixing me up with another poster with thar but, to paraphrase as we're on a new page now

Op says her child just randomly starts crying and when people ask why, she tells them it's because her mother is being nasty to her! She also has said to her mother 'I'm going to get you in trouble by crying' (threat) then started to cry.

Can you imagine being somewhere and your kid saying that to you. I think my blood would freeze!

“Op even finishes the post by saying 'for some reason she would just turn on me'.”

Yes, but this is an 8 Yr old child, not an XL bully dog. There’s been no violence mentioned, so I genuinely do not see how you can jump to a conclusion that this child is a dangerous psychopath. I think in context, turn on me has to refer back to turn on me and accuse me of being nasty/mean to her/get me in trouble with social services. That sort of thing.

I think its you jumping to the conclusion there that psychopaths are all violent.

I've pointed out that there could be an underlying personality disorder starting to form. But no where have I mentioned violence.

Although tbf it's a possible progression so if others have jumped to that conclusion it might be fair enough.

Sorry,
I thought that your agreeing with the poster expressing concern for the brother and saying she’s a psychopath meant you agreed on both points. My mistake.

I don’t see the I’m going to get you in trouble by crying as a threat. Not in the context of everything else. It could equally be a blunt statement of fact, followed by crying from fear of her mum getting into trouble. If it were a threat it would normally be given with no emotion or a smirk/laugh.

And eh...just pointing out you asked me where I saw the kid threaten op.

Not 'threaten the kid' or 'threaten with violence'.
Just threaten.

I agree with you, it appears to 'just' be threats to cause trouble for op. Not violence.

Still not great though is it xD

It was me thinking you agreed with another poster on all points when you posted in support of them.

That reads to me as a kid who has spent a lot of time in childcare/groups of children and has learned that crying and blaming someone gets that person in trouble (because people won’t always notice what went on before, will just react to the crying and the crying child says x did y! Sob sob sob- and x gets told off). My nieces and nephews do a variety of things like this quite open.

Clearly it’s inappropriate, but the child may well not understand the larger context and connotations of her actions.

Is she really likely to know that people might call the police/social services etc if she does it enough, and then the ongoing consequences of that? I doubt it really.

The ‘get you in trouble’ to me actually sounds like a child with a younger/lower level of understanding. like when they say ‘if you don’t give me that toy I’m telling over you’ type stuff. A child who is carrying out playground type behaviour on her mum because she doesn’t understand the nuances.

More like because she doesn't recognise her mothers authority. To an extent I'd agree you might see similar behaviour kid to kid. But a child threatening an adult with such vindictiveness is pretty shocking. Even moreso if it comes out of the blue and not as a retaliation for some perceived slight.

@MoxieFox
I guess we don't know if she smirked or not.
We just have to take the mothers opinion, which is evidently that she felt that the kid wanted to get her in trouble.

@Dilapidateddilapidate
I think you've hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph there.

Put together with the teacher comments that this girl seems to behave a bit younger than her peers and I think there is cause for concern.

The much younger brother has more sense.

Something is amiss with this child. I'd watch her like a hawk and see if direct consequences for behaviour have any effect.

I'd like to know what consequences there were for the crying/ dramatics when she was younger.

I applaud your attempts to reason with posters who clearly have no intention to the same.
God knows why some people here feel the need to push narratives like this because it’s damaging on so many different levels.

If the child is ND it might not be out of the blue for her. Rejection sensitive dysphoria could mean that she feels there has been unkindness towards her (that the mother doesn’t realise she has caused without meaning to). The emotions brought on by RSD are totally overwhelming and not like a child’s usual fit of pique- they can cause children to act out in all sorts of ways. And seemingly really small things can set it off.

I know when mine is triggered it’s a lot of effort to keep a lid on it and I’m an adult who knows why it’s happening and what it is- my similar aged child has the same thing, he knows what it is and what is happening but he can’t yet control his reactions to the emotions. I know what I’m dealing with with him, and my professional experience is in this area but I still trigger him into a RSD state sometimes… the op could definitely be doing it without meaning to or realising.

“@MoxieFox
I guess we don't know if she smirked or not.”

We do know because the OP said she said that and then started to cry.

I'd be interested to know what punishment she received for this. She should at the very least be made to clean it up. Has she shown any remorse? And is this typical behaviour at home?

The excuses people make for their kids behaviour is gobsmacking. Yes, there are children for whom life is harder due to ‘sensory processing issues’ and other neurological differences. But absolutely the consequences for destroying a home through reckless damage should be extreme and imo scare the child into realising doing it again is not an option. The reason I don’t go about committing violence is because I’m scared of the consequences!

Scaring young children is abusive parenting.

It is also known to increase the likelihood of aggressive behaviour both in childhood and adulthood.

Understanding = / = excusing. Understanding = higher chance of positive change.

Me too. Except without the sorry bit.

This attitude is really unhelpful if you're actually trying to bring somebody up to be a decent person. Much better to find the underlying reason why somebody is behaving badly and help them change/manage that. Obviously that means knowing what behaviour is unacceptable as the OP clearly does.

Shouting/punishing until the outward behaviour is what you want doesn't help in the long run (even if it works as intended) and just pushes the actual problem on to other people and society as a whole. Lazy parenting imo.

...and the reason I don't go around committing violence is because I don't want to! I'm not angry at other human beings. I have strategies to deal with the things that make me feel helpless / scared ---> angry. Thanks, parents!

That’s not healthy. That means you only do the right thing out of fear. Not because of ethics or morality, but because you are afraid of what someone bigger and stronger than you might do in retaliation - even if that someone is the police and justice system.

In most people, we label the clusters of behaviours they display with the work "personality" or "character." There is no condition called NP (Normal Personality

Actually it is called NT (Neuro Typical)

Dicipline is important pp. And if course it doesn't mean she only does things out of fear. It means she was taught how to behave morally because her parents knew when to utilise discipline. And yes, sometimes that does mean raising your voice. But moreso it means warning of consequences and following through on those warnings should the behaviours persist.

Discipline in itself is not abuse. Infact, a lack of it is arguably abuse because it leave the child spoilt and lacking in boundaries. With an idea that they are invulnerable and can do and say as they please. Narcissism at its finest.

Aggression is quite different from discipline and has no place in the home. But sometimes we cannot solve our child's behavioural issues by simply listening and understanding. We are not their friends, we are their parents. That sometimes means doing the hard thing and being strict with them when they are in need of a lesson on respect and social boundaries.

I think there can be a combination of reparation by the kid for unacceptable behaviour AND trying to address its root cause. I don't think it's excusing bad behaviour to find out what the reason for it is and help your kid deal with that as long as you are clear that the behaviour is not OK. That's not just listening and understanding, it's taking responsibility for the kid's behaviour by listening, understanding, and helping redirect. In my book, that's parenting not friendship.

We don’t live in a society where the validation of feelings is a deterrent against trangressive and violent acts. We have a police force, prisons, a whole penal system that enforces the law. As a parent, I’m fully invested in my children’s emotional wellbeing and of course look for underlying problems that might be contributing to bad behaviour. However, if they do things that are hugely transgressive (violence to others, property damage, hateful acts etc.) then yes, they will also meet my anger. I think children need to know that when you transgress social boundaries, people get cross. This doesn’t mean meeting violence with violence, but it certainly doesn’t mean I go ‘gentle parent’ and validate whatever base feeling has driven them to behave terribly. Shouting, big sanctions, losing privileges for extended periods and having to pay back in money what they ruined all work as punishments for big transgressions

DS doesnt go around wrecking the house because he's not a dick (and no SN like his sister). Nothing to do with being scared of me.