Daughter has wrecked the walls

[whatthehell1e]

8 year old daughter in a tantrum as I told her off for her behaviour yesterday (she painted the wardrobe in my room with her paints). I walked upstairs and she has sprayed her room, my room, hallway and her brother’s wall in baby oil. Whole brand new bottle. I have wiped it with towels but it’s not coming off. It looks like it has but after 5th attempt the wall dries but oil marks very visible. I’m really stressed. We cannot afford to decorate it all and it looks horrendous. I actually thought it was damp before I saw the empty oil bottle.

Wow, hysterical much?!

@whatthehell1e this level of anger, especially when you use the naughty step seems like it could be rejection sensitive dysphoria- it’s a part of ADHD. When she is shouted at/isolated on the naughty step etc she may be feeling it as a complete rejection and removal of love for her as a person, not a disapproval of the ‘bad’ behaviour.

Look it up and consider if she is experiencing a level of negative reaction from people a lot- that could well be feeding a cycle whereby she feels rejected and unloved (even if that isn’t your intention or the things seem tiny like her brother not wanting to play with her for example)- she acts out in a way that seems disproportionate (for example throwing her scooter)- you are angry with her- she feels rejected and acts out more.

IF this is a adhd, the crying to get you in trouble could also be RSD- she has feelings of being rejected which are so strong and painful to her that she is hitting back at the thing she thinks is causing it, you.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24099-rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-rsd#:~:text=A%20note%20from%20Cleveland%20Clinic,overwhelming%20levels%20of%20emotional%20pain.

https://www.additudemag.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-and-adhd/amp/

Also, painting things she shouldn’t (the wardrobe) and acting out of anger without thinking about the consequences (chucking baby oil about) could be a sign of adhd- impulsive behaviour.

Id get onto a private psychiatrist with expertise in ADHD if I were you (and I say that as a person with adhd [diagnosed by a psychiatrist, not an online screening!] and the mother of a child with ADHD)

A lot of people are suggesting this behaviour indicates autism, but it really does not in girls. This kind of explosive impulse behaviour can mean autism in young boys but it presents very differently in young girls. That said it certainly does sound like she's developing some kind of psychiatric disorder, and you need professional help with that urgently.

I would iron with brown paper or blotting paper first, it’s easy and really does work wonders. You can try more invasive methods if it doesn’t come off. Good luck! X

I’m so sorry you need to do this.

There are a few things you can try:

Methylated Spirits

Barkeepers Friend

Salt - as it does soak up oil very well (you can sprinkle salt in a frying pan for instance and use kitchen towel to clean the pan, so that you just need a warm sponge with a small amount of dishwashing liquid) For walls, you could try some salt on a cloth and quickly wipe the walls, but I feel that this might make a lot of mess

Sugar soap

Dishwashing liquid, not diluted on a cloth

Same thoughts here. My daughter is a year younger and wouldn’t do anything like that. I can’t even remember the last time she had a tantrum - must have been a year or so ago.

I would be a bit concerned unless there was anything obvious that has made her behave like this. Maybe something to keep an eye on?

If it is a one off incident, it probably doesn't indicate an underlying behavioural issue.

That being said every 8 year child will know this is wrong.

There needs to be consequences. I would do the following:

1. Child needs to help with the cleaning up process

1. If child receives pocket money, it will be used as a contribution to whatever is required to clean or fix it. Any further pocket money if received, will be taken and used until the cost is paid back to you in full

1. No treats for the next month. No sweeties, no trips out etc

1. No electronics e.g. ipad or TV for the next month (only books, drawing, playing with physical toys)

1. Made to sit and write an apology card to you for her actions

Try spraying the walls with WD40. Sounds crazy but may work.

I know they say you can’t smack you kids anymore but by Christ I’d a given the little shit a bloody good slap for doing that & she’d have every single toy; treat etc removed & she’d have to work her socks off to get any of it back bit by bit what she’s done is mindless vandalism x

You’re assuming she painted the wardrobe to damage it. I don’t think we know that’s the case at all.

In autism this would look like a child having very strict sequences or the way and order things need to be down, and not being able to cope of these sequences were broken, not getting stroppy because someone wasn't doing what they were told.

Very much this - watched eldest DS when little & playing with his young brother with duplo. Younger brother was putting the 'wrong heads on the wrong bodies' or 'the wrong person in the wrong vehicle' & it was panic it caused in eldest, not anger. He couldn't understand why his brother wasn't doing it 'right' & you could see it was a whole body panic reaction.

Obviously all ND children are different but nothing OP has said suggests a ND child, possibly just bad behaviour, possibly a personality disorder - who knows? Def needs to get a professional opinion from an open POV, not the currently easy process of ADHD diagnosis.

OP - re the oil, if it's an normal emulsion paint (likely given it's not the kitchen or bathroom) you'll not get the oil out I'm afraid, it will absorb right in. The zinsser is your best & most affordable option & will absolutely work to seal it. Good luck, you sound like a loving mum whose husband needs to step TF up 😊

(edited to add supportive comment cos of how mean mn can be)

Labels, labels, labels! A label is just that - it labels a cluster of behaviours. MH professionals assign the labels based on their own impression of the person they are assessing, plus info from relatives, schools, etc.

In most people, we label the clusters of behaviours they display with the work "personality" or "character." There is no condition called NP (Normal Personality).

Psychiatric labels have made the word "Personality" into part of a label for atypical personalities. This came into vogue about the first decade of this century, when psychiatrists began using the label Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) for patients who didn't fit any of the existing labels. And now there are a multitude of personality disorders and neurotypical conditions - or at least, a multitude of labels for clusters of symptoms.

Twaddle

If you think violence is the answer, you dont deserve to be a parent. We’ve moved out of the dark ages of parenting which is exactly why OP is asking for help and advice on here. Imagine all the SEN children in the past (if that is what it is) who were locked away in institutions when they actually needed help and support.

You deserve locking up for that comment and I certainly hope you dont have any children.

Please tell me your don't have children. Or access to them.

Totally agree with you @DisquietintheRanks I can testify that explosive impulse behaviour, part of the behaviour cluster which today is labelled autism, can certainly be displayed by girls!

Though in my case, I was more likely to burst into inconsolable sobbing

How? Easy, while the parents are waiting for the kids to grow out of the “phase” , teachers, kids and strangers are the ones teaching them that stupid actions have consequences.

OP, go ballistic on this. Zinsser makes products that you can paint over greasy areas to avoid the spot coming through new paint. You need to redecorate, there’s no way around it. Sell the iPad to pay for it.

My son had his iPad and phone off limits for 2 months for far less than that. She needs to learn self control to function in life. Thrashing the family home or making you spend £100s to fix damage she made voluntarily needs a proportional consequence.

I can assure you girls do exhibit destructive tendencies. Mine has gone through 5 TV"s and 5 phones, 2 doors etc. Today a mug was launched downstairs. The good thing is breakages are far less common now she self harms.....

I wouldn’t exactly say this is a corporal punishment taking away their iPad. It also doesn’t say she is ND.

“All behaviour has a reason and it is easy to go straight to adhd/asd as the cause but if your daughter is behaving and managing well at school in all domains this is unlikely.”

No that is outdated information. Girls with autism and/or ADHD often mask in school so the clue to autism/ADHD in girls is actually model behaviour in school and horrendous behaviour at home. It’s the night and day difference.

Please do not leave your 4 year old unattended with her. Maybe there’s trauma as someone suggested or she’s just used to you being a pushover, however the lying and violence suggest possible sociopathy . You’ve already told us she’s vengeful, violent and deceitful, what happens if she wants revenge for some perceived slight from a 4 year old?
She cannot punish you properly physically as she’s 8( thus doing something she knew would ,via vandalism) but she can a 4 year old. It may also occur to her that hurting her brother would punish you and right now she’s emboldened by your light touch discipline.
Dont take chances and please see a psychiatrist, not a social worker, teacher etc.This may sound dramatic but there’s so many cases out there of parents who missed the signs with serious consequences.

Isitautumnyet23- I'd say in the dark ages of parenting we didn't hear about these behaviors. Simply because tantrums weren't tolerated.

For heaven’s sake. Can we spot this totally unfounded and hysterical psychopath/ sociopath talk? Of course the OP needs to find out what is driving these tantrums but this exaggerated fear mongering is not helping.

The point is that OP also needs to think of the 4 year old. Rather than just ignoring some strong possibilities because they are unpalatable.

There is next to no possibility her DD is a sociopath or psychopath. Less than 1% of females develop these disorders whereas up to 1/3rd of people are neurodiverse in one way or another.

It is alarmist nonsense to imply she is a danger to her 4 year old brother because she painted a wardrobe and squirted baby oil on the walls and then lied about it or because she threw her scooter down in the garden in anger. If she were an 8yr old boy, no one would even be suggesting this is a worrying level of violence.

Most children her age lie about doing something wrong out of the fear of punishment or from a sense of shame. It’s not complicated.

If you need to smack your child, you’ve already lost control of yourself and YOU as the parent are the one who needs help.

My children are well behaved and have consequences for bad behaviour (which I absolutely carry out), but I have never smacked them and never would (like every parent I know). In the case of OP’s daughter, it may be the case that the normal consequences I give my children, would not work. Thats why she’s asking for advice from people who have experience of her situation.

But the bottom line is violence against any child should never ever happen. Im disgusted at that post as I imagine any decent Mumnet user would be.