‘Why did you have a baby with him?’

[Iftheydonlygetashifton]

Inspired by the numerous threads on MN where the OP is in a very tough situation with kids and an abusive partner, and the responses run ‘why on Earth did you choose to have children with him? You were with him for 3 years before children’ … etc etc. My thoughts are:

a) the OP isn’t omniscient;
b) many relationships change after having kids. Often having kids exposes men to be man-children. Hence, all the single mums out there and the many fewer single dads. And the mental burden disproportionately borne by women in hetero relationships even if both do paid work FT, etc.
c) Give the OP a break.

YABU - people don’t change substantially after having kids therefore it’s on the OP if they chose a wrong un.
YANBU - people can change after kids, relationships deteriorate, we should lay off a pile-on and give practical advice and moral support.

thanks

I agree it's nasty and deliberately unhelpful. Idiots will post, unfortunately.

At whatever juncture the OP chooses to reflect, it is a question worth asking.

It's not a question worth asking when it's basically kicking someone who has just reached out for help.

You wouldn't tell someone just hit by a bus to reflect on their road crossing techniques while they were awaiting help, this is no different.

It's merely an attempt at someone who feels smug and superior to have a pop. It's very rarely, if ever, someone trying to be helpful

I just get struck by the number of people on here who make poor decisions but never take responsibility.

For over 100 years now, women have campaigned for agency over their lives. Women now have those choices over how they live their lives. Still, we see more red flags than a Chinese military display every week on MN

No, 'Jane' that guy with a MH condition, drink habit, a criminal record, and can't hold a job for more than a few weeks isn't suddenly going to become husband of the year, is he? You choose to move in, have DC, and it's on you. It's not 'victim blaming' to say 'Jane' needs to look at herself. Ok, It's not helpful to say 'why have dc with him', but it's frustrating that we have agency and still end up with these scenarios.

Op is really saying that Elizabeth 1 shouldn't have existed because Anne Boleyn should have known better. The consequences were indeed unfortunately for anne Boleyn but it would have been a pity if England had missed out on Elizabeth 1 - one of our most successful monarchs

This is a really interesting thread - I expected a huge majority to vote say that the woman can't know how a relationship is going to turn out. I would never ask someone why they stayed with/had kids with an abusive or just useless partner, it's not in anyway going to help them to leave and is just cruel.

But I do share the frustration of a lot of pps with women who go on to have more children with a man who is abusive - taking it that many men won't be abusive until the woman is pregnant or the baby arrives. Or women who know before they have kids that their partner is awful/useless/feckless.

It's dreadful that some women still seem to prefer to be in a relationship, no matter how bad, rather than be single. I know a few women who've gone back to damaging relationships, because they love him and he's promised to change. And we're all supposed to forget the hell they went through, because he really loves them, and to be there with the hankies and lasagna when it all goes wrong again.

This shows a total lack of understanding about the nature of abusive relationships.

I think it's a fair question sometimes actually and I had a baby with a dickhead myself. Why? I was 17 and immature, had poor male role models my entire life and didn't know any better. I wouldn't get offended if someone asked me that question, I think we do have to take some responsibility.

But having one kid can make you feel even more trapped and even less like you have options than not having any. And the woman might not be in employment if she is caring for first child etc. her identity becomes this family that she has made and invested so much in and the guy has convinced her that she is the problem - she is too needy or stressy or anxious or miserable- so the woman doesn't believe 'I could do better than this' she often thinks that he could!

I agree

People who haven't been in an abusive relationship don't appreciate that for most of us, it's not daily abuse, or a man who takes all your money or beats you if you step out of line.

It's some lovely things, followed by

'not so good, but he's stressed at work', followed by

'that was absolutely not ok, but to be fair he was feeling sad and I have kept turning him down for sex, and was pretty short with him too, I should have backed off / I can see why he is so jealous', followed by

'Oh god, I have to leave, this has got too bad, too often' followed by

'he's feeling so bad, he knows it wasn't ok, he remembered my favourite chocolates, he's cried and said he'll do whatever it takes to make it right, and he's just like his old self again, and the kids are having so much fun, they'd be devastated in a split up, this time I'll just be a better wife, it's all good now and we will keep it this way'
And so on and on and on.

I'd be willing to bet that even some of the 'why have children with him" crowd themselves have been or are in abusive relationships but never made the connection. Most of us don't, it feels like something that happens to other people. It also doesn't help that our brains are also primed to fuzz out moments of extreme stress, and we forget what it's like not to walk on eggshells.

Yes it is a question worth asking. It is not victim blaming, it is asking an OP to reflect on their behaviour and what is causing them to make poor decisions. That knowledge can help to guide OP to not make poor decisions in the future.

It is nothing like getting hit by a bus for goodness sake.

👏👏👏👏👏

Excellent post

Sadly, this is spot on.

So many posters clearly haven't a clue about what abuse can look like, and seem to see it as some Eastenders-style roaring man, swinging his fists.

Of course that would be dreadful. But it's not the totality of abuse - I remember being grateful when my H hit me (rarely, and towards the end) as it felt tangible and some 'evidence' of abuse. The other abuse was far worse.

@VictoriaVenkman

Your posts are spectacularly stupid & insulting.

You clearly have no clue about the dynamics of abusive relationships or women in crisis.

The 'Why did you...' is never a tool that will aid reflection. Even if the woman could answer it, how will it help her make decisions now to address her abusive / unhappy relationship?

Stop repeating nonsense & perhaps listen to others who do understand it.

Yes it is a question worth asking. It is not victim blaming, it is asking an OP to reflect on their behaviour and what is causing them to make poor decisions

Until the question is asked and answered, we wouldn't know that OP did make poor decisions. Everything can seem fine until the start of a pregnancy or the arrival of a baby

A lot of put downs and abusive insults towards posters who are just expressing (without any insults!) a differing view.
Interesting...

What do you mean?

In my case, no insults to any posters. I've commented only on what they've said, not them personally.

The reason it's frustrating is that many of us, with direct knowledge of these situations, have explained why it isn't helpful, and worse, is judgmental and sneery, making it likely the vulnerable poster will just shut down, feeling unsupported.

Not sure why that's so hard for you & some others to grasp.

On threads described in the OP - yep, not helpful.

BUT I've seen the same responses trotted out on threads where the OP has asked "how do you afford xyz", and gets replies along the lines of "we stuck to 1/2 children".

And then I think it's a valid answer, even if the OP can't send a child back. If the answer is "we can afford it because we chose to have a smaller family", then another part of the picture is "OP chose the bigger financial risk of a larger family and now has to deal with it".

Well, that makes perfect sense, but isn't relevant here.

Saying we can afford x lifestyle choice, as we decided to limit our family to y number of children, isn't the same as accusatorially asking 'why did you have a baby with him?'

It's not even linked!

@Cantstaystuckforever - indeed it's exactly like that for many -- the men are often erratic and Jekyll and Hyde , I don't think they realise in lots of cases too how hard they are to live with. The nastiness gets normalised in their own head

In their minds it’s all justified - my STBXH describes his adultery partner’s STBXH as “controlling and manipulative”, with a completely straight face, despite displaying these traits in his own behaviours. Staggering lack of self awareness. But I’m going off track here.

@Cantstaystuckforever you have perfectly described my lived experience. It really is boiling the frog. I even argued with mental health professionals that I wasn’t being abused, that I just needed to behave in certain ways to “manage his moods”.

A year out, I still sometimes question my own judgement as to whether it was really abuse. Then I look at the list of ways I was mistreated and I’m ashamed I valued myself so little to put up with it for so long. But sunk costs, financial dependency, fear of him taking the kids, (and even the thought of him having the kids for any time at all on his own was a scary prospect), the shame of “failing” at marriage, and lack of any family support all kept me hostage in the situation. I just told myself it wasn’t that bad, put on my best face, made the most of it, found joy where I could and accepted this was my “life”.

I just told myself it wasn’t that bad, put on my best face, made the most of it, found joy where I could and accepted this was my “life”.

I was exactly the same. I felt quite emotional reading your post.

It also took me years of counselling to accept I had been abused.

A particular incident propelled me to action, thankfully, as I think I'd have had a nervous breakdown in the end & God knows what would have happened to my DC.

I don't agree with put-downs, but you and some others don't seem to appreciate that this is not an intellectual debating exercise, these phrases are putting women and children are risk of very serious harm.

Abused people already have the voice of their abuser telling them that this is all their fault and they make bad choices, they don't need to hear it when seeking help or advice.

On average, abused women try to leave 7 times before they finally cut ties. There are many good reasons why. https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/women-leave/

When people use the identical justification to rebut people contributing, yes it is linked - especially where the question is why did you have 1/2/3 children with anyone on a site called Mumsnet.

And sometimes it can be both.