‘Why did you have a baby with him?’

[Iftheydonlygetashifton]

Inspired by the numerous threads on MN where the OP is in a very tough situation with kids and an abusive partner, and the responses run ‘why on Earth did you choose to have children with him? You were with him for 3 years before children’ … etc etc. My thoughts are:

a) the OP isn’t omniscient;
b) many relationships change after having kids. Often having kids exposes men to be man-children. Hence, all the single mums out there and the many fewer single dads. And the mental burden disproportionately borne by women in hetero relationships even if both do paid work FT, etc.
c) Give the OP a break.

YABU - people don’t change substantially after having kids therefore it’s on the OP if they chose a wrong un.
YANBU - people can change after kids, relationships deteriorate, we should lay off a pile-on and give practical advice and moral support.

thanks

Nope. This is reductive.

These can be red flags. My H exhibited none of these.

It's not particularly about a checklist of behaviours - tho they can be relevant.

It's about how you yourself feel, your sense of agency, self & confidence. That will allow you to set boundaries & prioritise yourself, ultimately ensuring you don't end up with a man like this.

Yanbu

It's also such an unhelpful response.

'Why did you x?'

Well it's done now so help me with what is, don't criticise me for being in the situation now i'm in it!

People make mistakes, but choosing to procreate with deadbeats and dickheads is not fair on a child.

But it's the OP in all cases asking dog advice to start with.

It's not helpful to that poster to be asked 'why did you have children with him?' It's judgey & nasty.

As a PP said, if you want to generally educate the MN masses, start a separate thread.

A lot of women think with their genitals (not just a male trait). They're attracted to arseholes and thus have children with them.

while the OPs either ignored them or didn't have the emotional intelligence to recognise them,

Give me strength. How patronising.

It's not about either of these things, not in all cases.

You may not have an indication of how a man will become abusive. The 'successful' abusers don't flag it up. And they are not consistently abusive - they vary tactics & approach, and it's common for women to say they felt they were going mad.

'Emotional intelligence'. FFS

It’s true that some women are attracted to “bad boys” and are bored by nice guys. But still somehow expect the bad boys to make good life partners.

A lot of women think with their genitals (not just a male trait). They're attracted to arseholes and thus have children with them.

There are women who choose to have a certain type of partner who portrays themselves as bad. If you date someone with a balaclava, knife and criminal record then yes

But it's very simplistic to say that people end up with these people due to choosing wrong and that's it. Abusive childhoods impact judgement, desperation for money/safety/protection, people can turn bad and things can get worse, you can be controlled, a man can trap a woman/girl with pregnancy etc

It isn't victim blaming to question why a woman would choose to have multiple children with a man who is not pulling his weight.

If anything, it's extremely patronising to assume the woman is an idiot with no personal agency.

If those posts give a woman reading them some pause about her own decision making, then that's a good thing.

I'm very sorry. I can empathise.

It's not your fault.

As a child you were failed in terms of role models & developing your sense of self.

Now, you can see those choices weren't serving you but at the time, you married him as you felt this was all you deserved or could have.

I felt similarly - I was concerned about marrying him, but honestly thought it was the best I'd get. An apparently easy-going, likeable man who adored me & everyone thought was great.

My ex h changed completely after 10 years of marriage. A different man. Nasty unpleasant. Vicious. Aggressive. He crossed boundaries that I would never have dreamed he would in the frost ten years of married life.

I have four dcs with him. I'm sorry I couldn't see into the future and predict his mental decline.

Have you read any of the thread?

If someone makes poor choices, it comes from something within themselves that's lacking or under-developed.

In the vast majority of cases, women do not knowingly have children with men they accept as 'dickheads and deadbeats', intentionally to harm DC.

Have a bit of compassion maybe.

A lot of women think with their genitals (not just a male trait). They're attracted to arseholes and thus have children with them.

Vile. Especially on this thread 😡

Agree.
To me it always seems as my mum used to say like a case of shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

Apologies. I have skimmed the thread a bit as in a rush, if this has already been said.

The way it is asked sometimes comes across as rude, as implying "well OP you were stupid, so this is all your own fault, you made your bed now lie in it."
Which is not exactly helpful. Although i do take some posters point that it could be seen as an indicator to other women reading it who are heading for a similar situation, to take note and not embark on child-rearing with someone who appears as if they won't be helpful or kind.

I also note that sometimes, the behavior of the partner is often described as extremely pleasant at the start of the relationship. People comment that "he couldn't do enough for me" or "this has only happened recently and I just want to get back to how things were before, or he seems to have changed" . .. and then you get comments from people saying that he was probably love bombing.
Which to me suggests that makes it more difficult to predict from the outset.
Its easier to see it with hindsight.

The danger of not challenging some of these behaviours is that the space gets filled with all of the 'all men are awful' posts.

All that does is normalise bad relationships and make some women believe that if they want a family, they need to accept that their partner will be a useless, possibly abusive arsehole.

It is victim blaming to assume women just choose badly. It is victim blaming to not consider that these things are more nuanced than ooh stupid young women choosing bad boys and getting pregnant.

It's unhelpful or nasty to do so when a woman posts asking for help in a difficult relationship.

How does writing 'why did you have kids with him?' help that OP, in that situation.

Of course it doesn't.

Earlier I suggested types of questions that could help, but questions like this have no meaningful answer & are said from a position of assumed superiority.

This is basically something that twats say to make themselves feel superior and to kick an OP who is clearly having a hard time.

I have almost never seen it used where it would make any difference to the OP's situation, or what she is seeking help or advice with. It's exactly like when kids say deeply unhelpful and nasty things to each other and then whine 'but it's truuuuuue' when they're called out on it. So what if it's true? How is it constructive? How is it helpful to the current situation to try to make an OP feel that they deserve their situation and because of their choices may be permanently screwed?

I guess it comes down to why people choose to engage on those sort of threads. Some seem to be motivated by a genuine desire to help. Others seem to just want to make themselves feel better at someone else's expense.

It’s not remotely helpful to the person posting

And pretending it’s meant to be helpful to other people is downright disingenuous - it’s a put down to the person posting and everyone knows it.

And giving someone posting for help a sharp kick says far more about the commenter than the original poster

I said it's not fair on the child. It isn't. They're the ones who grow up with a bad/absent father.

I'm aware there's a whole host of reasons why women go down that path.

Nonsense.

Again- RTFT
There are loads of ways to ask questions or make suggestions that look forward to actions the OP can take now to improve matters, not to castigate her for past choices.

If you want to educate others about healthy relationships, start another thread.

So so many women ignore the red flags, they are there it's just the the woman's circs, biological clock or fear of being on their own override it

And how is asking why helpful to the child/children?

they’re already born, and their parent (usually mother) is posting because they’ve recognised something isn’t right.

How is giving the mother a kick while she’s down and possibly putting her off posting for help doing anything to help them?

I said it's not fair on the child. It isn't. They're the ones who grow up with a bad/absent father.

Lots of things aren't fair on children, which is tough.

You absolutely said that women made poor choices which then result in outcomes that are unfair on kids.

It's unfair on kids to have an abusive father; it's not the women's fault however.

Oh go away. Or at least RTFT.

Utterly ignorant post