‘Why did you have a baby with him?’

[Iftheydonlygetashifton]

Inspired by the numerous threads on MN where the OP is in a very tough situation with kids and an abusive partner, and the responses run ‘why on Earth did you choose to have children with him? You were with him for 3 years before children’ … etc etc. My thoughts are:

a) the OP isn’t omniscient;
b) many relationships change after having kids. Often having kids exposes men to be man-children. Hence, all the single mums out there and the many fewer single dads. And the mental burden disproportionately borne by women in hetero relationships even if both do paid work FT, etc.
c) Give the OP a break.

YABU - people don’t change substantially after having kids therefore it’s on the OP if they chose a wrong un.
YANBU - people can change after kids, relationships deteriorate, we should lay off a pile-on and give practical advice and moral support.

thanks

Oh riiiighht.
It's ok on a small subset of threads, got you.

The whole thread has been a general discussion of the use of the phrase.

And on MN it is used prolifically & certainly not only in the specific instance you state.

I read it, i just disagree when people say the man suddenly changes after the 2nd or 3rd kid. I can buy it with the first one as that's a big lifestyle change.

Username is ironic, guess that went over your head though.

Username is ironic, guess that went over your head though.

May have started that way but funnily, not so much now.

Your ignorance is staggering. It's not that 'men change after the first because it's a huge lifestyle change' (🤦🏻‍♀️ please!). It's that having children enhances vulnerable situations that can allow an abusive man to perpetrate their abuse more successfully.

This can happen before or after children, and before or after any number of them.

The powerless situation a woman finds herself in can come about from a number of factors.

But, it's all set out in many posts on the thread, if you care to read them.

This. Don’t go on to have MORE a children .

And please if you do don’t drag the children into the “ war”

And please if you do don’t drag the children into the “ war”

Care to elaborate on that gem?

(Another person not bothering to RTFT)

🙄

Ok, if I personally were to use it, it would be under those circumstances. I posted my own opinion not responding to anyone in particular. I wasn't analysing the however many posts that came before mine before I posted.

But the 'why did you' question is not advice. It's just judgment

Yes, I'm agreeing with you on that point. I have twice at least.

Fair enough @ChiefWiggumsBoy it wasn't clear from other posts but I understand what you mean.

I know you say you agreed it's judgmental but you've also continued to argue for its use! I don't know why it's ever useful to use a judgmental phrase to a poster seeking help.

This thread is raising my BP tho so I probably need a break 😂

YANBU

My father was a true gentleman when he met my mum, completely devoted to her, well spoken and polite. It wasn't until he changed his job, got into drugs and started drinking that he started beating my mum and us. It took her many years to get rid of him but that was only because she was a shell of herself because of his behaviour.

This. I'm in the same position, with less excuse re my background. Good luck for the future!

@EarringsandLipstick

Thank you for your kind message, and sorry to hear you have a similar experience. Can I ask if you are still with him?

No one thought my husband was a nice guy, he very obviously wasn't. For some reason I still thought I had no choice but to plod on and marry him! All very sad, looking back.

It gives me some comfort to think that there are some younger women reading these threads, and our stories might give them pause for thought.

For anyone in the same position, I strongly recommend individual counselling. It is helping me to see my feelings and needs as important, though it's a long road to break the habit of a lifetime of accepting crap treatment.

I do appreciate in many cases there are numerous red flags and low expectations - but in so many cases there were none at all and sometimes none till you have had several children - it's like the bloke had a total personality change - sometimes it's due to losing a job, mates suddenly becoming single again, affairs, disappointment in their life or simply falling out of love with a family set up--because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. However the thing is I feel that whilst you can't change the fact of having the children already- you can damn we'll make sure you don't have more with them.

YABU - nobody is an angel before kids/marriage then turns into the devil.

The signs are there if people choose not to read them that's up to them.

Psychopaths are more than able to maintain an act if the person is "useful" to them quite often without letting the mask slip.

I find the threads where women are so desperate and when offered non-judgemental, empathy, care and encouragement heart warming to make changes to their life, and improve theirs and their children's lives. (When followed) kicking them when there down not so much.

I really like this explanation about why we shouldn't blame women for picking or staying with the wrong men.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsR16oUJuAu/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

@EarringsandLipstick maybe what I mean is more that I can understand why people would use it/say it. And that also, sometimes we respond completely emotionally, not because of this particular poster, but that it comes up time and time again and it becomes wearing to repeat the same carefully worded advice.

Not saying that's right either, but it's just human nature.

See I don't even think it's worth asking in this type of situation. The reality is, the decision cannot be undone so focusing on that is unhelpful. Focus instead on what changes or decisions can be made now to improve the future.

This is awesome. I told myself so much of this.

@howmanytimes34

Thankfully not!

I'm separated 10 years in a few weeks, and still going through a protracted & horrible divorce.

I'm not sure that I'd have been able to leave him if I knew what was ahead of me - but I devoutly glad I did. It's been unquestionably better for my DC, tho he's treated them awfully too (they have virtually no contact with him now).

I agree fully with counselling. It's quite literally been a life-saver for me.

Best of luck to you 💐

I've been thinking about this thread all night.

Some PP mentioned this, but I think it is key...

In a lot of cases it's not the men who have changed (they were always shits) but the women. They 'wake up and smell the coffee', for want of a better description.

Either they want better for their children; they've started to get a job/career which has given them confidence; or just simply getting older and wiser, they are finally able to admit that they are in terrible relationships with terrible men.

This can be once the first baby is born, when pregnant with the 4th baby, or when the 4th baby is starting university...

By the time people are posting on Mumsnet for help and advice, they are often desperate.

So a gentle reminder about using contraception is one thing (and some people do seem to be surprisingly naive about it) but a lot of judgemental responses can have a really negative impact on already vulnerable women, as some of the PP on this thread have mentioned.

Good luck to everyone in this position

It’s never worth asking. Since time travel has not been invented it adds zero value to any conversation

It is worth asking as it directs an OP to look at their behaviour and why they have made poor decisions in the past so they do not repeat them in future.

That’s only helpful once the present situation as been resolved. Before then it has little practical relevance and only contributes to self blame , low self esteem and victim blaming

If the intention is to be helpful, why not say:

Please make sure you use reliable contraception from now, op. Get a coil and don't have another baby with him. It's already so tough, don't make yourself any more vulnerable. Can you talk to your friends or family about this?

Rather than

Why did you have a baby with him?

The latter is sneery and condescending. Doesn't matter whether it's true, it's not remotely helpful. And it won't make someone with deep rooted insecurities or a precarious financial/living position do anything different.

And if you ask her why did she have a baby with him, that will make her feel hopeless. In that case, what difference does it make if she has another 2-3 children? It's too late, as she's had a baby already. It's so so unhelpful.

I agree its a nasty statement of judgement, not a question.

The point many PPs here are missing is that the woman's main priority at the time may be having a baby. Its all very well having a wake up moment at 26, but what if you are 36 and the thing you want most in the world will slip away from you if you leave this relationship? They are in a position of making an impossible choice. Walking away is likely to bring a lifetime of unhappiness, staying may not be so obviously the wrong choice. Maybe he isn't the best guy in the world at that time but he also really wants a family and it just makes sense. As others have said, behaviour that was previously tolerated but not liked can escalate and suddenly become intolerable. I haven't been in that situation, but I can say the stress and strain of children has really negatively changed my relationship, in ways I didn't see coming.