Mrs and Mr Smith

[Oysterbabe]

When I write client letters I always put the woman's name first in the address and write
Dear Mrs & Mr Smith. The letters have to be checked before posting and my boss always swaps the names back because 'it doesn't flow properly'
AIBU for always writing the woman's name first?

What would your response be if your daughter chose to take her husband’s surname, which statistically speaking is more likely than not

@Superfood

I always wonder how these mumsnetters fare if their own daughters decide to, for example, take their husband’s name, become a SAHM

Are they as supportive and rooting for them as they are to women that choose not to do the above?

I'm amazed you believe people judge about a woman's marital status in modern Britain (assuming that is where you are). Sorry that isn't meant to sound critical. I'm genuinely surprised.

Perhaps I'm just thick-skinned and/or unobservant but this isn't part of my world, at least I don't think it is.

I changed my name AND I kept it even when we divorced! 😂

@EBearhug But people will make assumptions and judge you, whichever you choose to use, whereas men just get Mr whatever.

how old are you?

With respect, you have no idea why your FB acquaintances chose to change their names. Yes they had the 'right' to choose, but that's not to say they weren't swayed or influenced by convention or others' expectations.

You also didn't answer my question as to why you decided to change your name the 2nd time.
Saying "I had the choice to do so and decided I would" doesn't really explain anything or help anyone understand your reasons.

Why did you make that choice?

It would be nothing to do with me. Although she is quite clear at the point that she doesn't want to get married at all...

I'd be surprised and disappointed, but it's her life.

Because whether you like it or not, the English formal language states it…

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/addressing-a-letter-to-two-people/

Same goes for if you don’t know the persons name. It’s ‘Dear Sir/Madam’ not ‘Dear Madam/Sir’. If you receive a professional letter it should always follow the traditional format.

Ultimately OP can do what they want but their boss is correct and by their boss correcting them continuously, they’ll just look incompetent and unable to follow their bosses instructions for something they have no backing for. Sorry but this is such a stupid hill to die on also incorrect if you’re following traditional English as most companies and even the public sector still do.

It’s like “mum and dad” can never be “dad and mum” can it?

None of which makes inverting the order 'grammatically incorrect'.
That link gives various possibilities, some of which are contradictory. But as it says at the end:

Bottom line: If you know the couple, you should know how they prefer to be addressed.
If you are addressing a letter to people you do not know well, choose a respectful form of address that suits the occasion.

I don’t understand those who judge women for changing their name, they have a choice to do so. I kept my last name as an ode to my Father as the last in the line of that name. If you keep your maiden name, you’re keeping a male name anyway. All surnames are male in origin unless you decide to give yourself a brand new surname by deed poll.

Couples also hypernate names or simply want the same last name to have a family name. I don’t see any woman as less independent or strong because she wants a matching last name. As long as she’s happy with her choice, I am happy!

I did give a reason.
Because I wanted to. Maybe I liked the sound of it. Maybe I wanted a new start. Maybe I just wanted to. But the point is I exercised my right to choose.
If that's not enough of an answer for you then I'm not really sure what you want me to say. My choice was stay or change.
I'm having chicken for tea. Because I want to. I'm going to Spain on holiday because I want to.
You seem to be of the opinion that any woman who changed her name is somewhat oppressed. I must be surrounded by oppressed women. Of my group of friends from university, at a guess about 12 of us, all married, all with degrees etc only 2 have kept their name. My married male friends, they must wear the trousers too because their wives changed. Not sure if it's a coincidence but neither of the two who kept their name live in the UK.
All those women I taught must be oppressed as well. At least 4 of them run their own business. At least 6 of them have professional qualifications. But they must be oppressed as they changed their name. I also have some same sex couples, one has double barrelled, the other two have chosen one or other of their names and used that so maybe they're oppressed as well.

Edit @Strawberryboost so sorry didn’t mean to QT you! Don’t know how that happened.

@ErrolTheDragon how is it not grammatically incorrect if it’s always done that way and is also taught to most kids in school to layout letters that way? I remember learning this in school personally (alongside how to use things like ‘to whom it may concern’) and after that it has always been that way in the workplaces I’ve been in and I’m a millennial. I don’t understand and think a lot of posters are completely blindsided here because of their hate of how they perceive it as patriarchal when it’s just the traditional English format - which whether we like it or not is steeped in the masculine coming before the feminine.

I get that it burns as women (even though personally I don’t get so worried about it as I believe it’s just formal English) but the OP is being corrected by their boss rightly because it’s incorrect. This does change if the woman’s title takes on more importance e.g Dr. Ultimately I’d be correcting OP in the workplace too as I don’t like formats going astray but maybe I’m just a purist.

However for informal things such as cards, I address to the main recipient. So my friend who recently got married, because she’s my friend I directed the card to her with her husband second. But in a formal setting like my work - it’d be the traditional way.

This is the exact type of thing where I don’t call myself a feminist even being in a high end career in a male industry who does care about women’s CHOICES. There are so many rules and if you even inch towards tradition you’re deemed oppressed.

You want a matching surname - oppressed
You consult your husband on things - oppressed
You think fathers are important - oppressed
You want to be a SAHM and are not forced - oppressed
You don’t want to sleep around? - oppressed

It often makes feminism less about choice as shown by one poster stating they’d be disappointed if their daughter chose to be a SAHM. It’s appears to be more about dictating to women exactly what they must do or they’ll be insulted/mocked by the tribe. It’s not exactly endearing and I know many successful women who don’t prescribe to feminism either. I’m grateful for what the original feminists sought for me, I have a job, bank account, my own choice on contraception etc. But this new wave of constantly having a pop at women who’ve made a choice and are happy - nope.

Whether you like it or not, the link you provide is nothing more than a claim from a website with no authority. You're going to have to do much, much better than that to back up the sort of claim you're making here.

Okay you’re right. It’s just always been Mr and Mrs for the bants and we’ve all been wrong for hundreds of years. You do you.

Instead of being told what to do by men, we're now told what to do by women!
Women who can't seem to grasp that anything other than what they would do isn't wrong, it's just our choice, not theirs.

If you receive a professional letter it should always follow the traditional format.

Why should it, though? It's just tradition and convention, and those do change over time.

You're the one who's making assertions, not me. If you'd merely said that it was the most commonly used form or a convention or similar, that would've been fine. You start making claims about things being definitively right or wrong grammar whether people like it or not, you're going to get asked for evidence and it's going be noticed when you can't back it up.

I suspect your daughter would be a acutely aware of your disappointment

How about you back up that Mrs then Mr is the correct way? I’ll await your sources.

Why would I back up something I haven't claimed?

You said that Mrs and Mr is grammatically incorrect. You're the one who made an assertion and claimed it to be fact, not me. I didn't say there was a grammatically correct or incorrect way.

That means either you prove your claim, and you haven't, or it will be bollocks. Trying to deflect elsewhere won't do that.

how is it not grammatically incorrect if it’s always done that way and is also taught to most kids in school to layout letters that way?

Because it's not grammar. Two nouns separated by a conjunction - it's fine either way. You can argue it's stylistically or conventionally correct, but it's not grammatically wrong to say Mrs and Mr.

@EBearhug

can you elaborate on @EBearhug But people will make assumptions and judge you, whichever you choose to use, whereas men just get Mr whatever.