Nanny spending more than agreed on own expenses

[Saysomethingorwhatnot]

I’ve name changed for this as I post a lot in my usual name, and don’t want this linked to my other threads.

I am a single parent working full-time, and have a full-time live-out Nanny for my 3 primary school aged DC who does everything; childcare/activities/shopping/cooking/cleaning/washing/ironing/errands etc.

So that Nanny doesn’t need to constantly ask me for money to facilitate the above, I provide a bank card with a limited amount of cash available for her to spend on house/children related purchases.

I used to add £160 to Nanny’s monthly payslip to cover travelling round with the children (Nanny has own car), however I’ve recently bought a new car which Nanny knows she can use anytime (and actually Nanny does use my car regularly as I don’t at all during the week as I commute using trains).

A few months before I got my new car, Nanny asked if I could pay her the equivalent taxed cash (£30) on a weekly basis for petrol instead of through her monthly salary. I agreed as I know she struggles with managing her own money, and has asked me for advances at end of week 3/beginning of week 4 of a month a few times.

My bank has recently asked for my updated mobile details, and I’ve suddenly started receiving notifications. I received a bank notification today to say Nanny has spent the double the amount I advised she could spend on weekly petrol (so £60 instead of £30). Possibly because she was on annual leave one of the weeks, however my thought is that if she was on annual leave, she wasn’t ferrying the children around. Plus she has access to my car when with us, so I shouldn’t be paying her car expenses as well. I looked back through my bank statements and noticed she’d spent the same double amount (£60) a few times previously (either after annual leave or during school holidays).

I am a fair employer, paying a market rate salary, plus I give Nanny payslip bonuses and extra days off during the year. I can afford the extra amounts Nanny has spent on petrol as I earn a decent salary, however wondering whether I would be unreasonable to say no petrol expense except when with children and for only the agreed amount. It’s really quite sensitive, as she is very much part of our family, DC love her, and I couldn’t do what I do without her. Makes me feel I’m being petty to quibble over £30 here and there, but I must admit it has irked me. If general consensus is that I should leave it, then I will.

Grateful for any thoughts.

I think this a grey - it sounds like she does more than the average nanny. I wouldn't say her salary is particularly high. I would start formalising things but would make some kind of excuse like for tax reason etc

OP,

it's always a tricky situation because you want to maintain good relations, but if you don't address niggles, in my experience, they start to grow.

My children are grown now but we had nannies when they were younger and I know the difficult balance.

If I were in your position I would introduce an 'agent of blame' to take the pressure off.

For example, you could say that you have a new accountant who is now insisting you pay nanny the recommended rate per mile when using own car, on submission of receipts.

That would give you more control, and indeed if she's using your car that is filled by you, should negate the need for petrol almost entirely.

OP I agree with others it might be a good idea if this can somehow be presented to your nanny/invaluable helper - she sounds great, by the way - as a way of making her life/her tax/financial affairs easier for her? (You sau she has problems managing money. Can you perhaps introduce her and pay for to meet a sympathetic and helpful accountant who could set up some user-friendly system for her to use? I know that as a one-off this would be taxable (unless you gave it to her, for example, for her birthday) , but it would surely repay that cost in the longer term. ) Otherwise, if you can afford to ignore the odd £30 here and there, I would do so. I would, however, keep a careful watch going forward, to make sure this sort of overspend does not escalate.

I spent much of my career as an academic, teaching Mumsnetters'- and other peoples' - sons and daughters. It was fascinating - young people are mostly so interesting and often humbling and inspiring -I don't regret it for one moment. But it's really thought-provoking- and sobering - to learn that your nanny earns as much as many university teachers do after 6 years intensive and horribly competitive demanding studies.

I am NOT being critical. Looking after young children is a terrifically demanding and responsible job. It sounds as if you and your nanny are, on the whole, a very good match. But - as in every profession - there are (and should be) rules and boundaries.

If you want to keep the relationship good and aren’t overly bothered by the additional money, why not go back to £160, but regain control of the money. So something like ‘the accountant isn’t happy with the petrol money coming out of the account your card is linked to, so I need to transfer it to you monthly from now on. I thought I’d increase it a little and go back to £160, but don’t worry you can still use my car.’

Thanks for all the very helpful responses. I do see that I have muddied the waters by not having a car/having a car, paying petrol on monthly payroll with tax deducted/now paying cash at a time of Nanny convenience.

I’ve decided I’m going to stop the cash payments for petrol, and revert back to £160 extra going on her payslip, with the corresponding tax deduction which would still leaves Nanny with circa £130 per month. How Nanny manages her money is nothing to do with me (despite wanting to help her manage her money through the month!).

It’s effectively a pay rise as she uses my car most of the time, and hers mostly for coming back and forth from her workplace (although her workplace is our house, I know the cost to her of this travel is not my responsibility).

Cross post lol

I cross posted with @CantFindTheBeat If you can find someone else to 'blame' for a change of procedure, then that would be v. helpful. I still also think that - if your nanny will accept it - help to manage her finances going forward would be a very useful thing for you do do.

That sounds like a good approach, OP.

I would be clear to the nanny what you're doing though, as essentially it's around a £2.5k rise.

You have 2 choices.

Either you tell her because of the cost of fuel, she has to use your car when she is doing anything for the kids, and not her own.

Or

You ask if she's having issues covering the cost of fuel as you've noticed the extra payments, then sit down and have a proper conversation about the fuel that is going in, and remind her, the money you provide is for when she is driving the kids, not for her to use when she on leave/at home/not at work.

OP Consensus is to not let this lie. Regardless of how much you all like her.
She is still your employee and she has fraudulently spent your money!
Establish payment maximum going forward/Use of your vehicle for the most part.
Ask why this has happened?

PLEASE UPDATE US

It sounds like she works hard and you pay her fairly.

Really? 40K for someone who is a nanny + housekeeper + PA? She does far more than your average nanny. I'd expect to pay that for a nanny let alone a nanny housekeeper.

You sound really thoughtful and lovely @nameXname what a wonderful thing to do, especially if she’s much loved within then family and especially if it’s tax deductible too :)

I would casually mention it at first and also let it slip into the conversation that you have started to get mobile notifications regarding ALL transactions on the card lately…..she will know then that you are monitoring it and won’t try anything sneaky ……hopefully.
You sound quite wealthy so maybe she thinks you are not monitoring / not bothered about small amounts of money being spent as she probably presumes you can well afford it.
when people know they can get away with taking small amounts of money without it going unnoticed then they usually get braver and start taking larger and larger amounts……not saying that’s her intention as it may be naivety on her part but I would nip it in the bud before she may start getting ideas

😂😂😂😂

Off the point completely, but a plot point in Ruth Rendells great London-set book Grasshoppers revolves around a nanny saving up the odd ten or twenty pounds here and there that her wealthy employers don't notice. Things like they give her 50 to pay for something and they don't ask for change. It adds up to many thousands in the end. Her attitude is sort of that they are so careless with money, it flows so easily from them that she feels: why not? I could easily see the temptation in high net worth families. Obviously neither the OP or the nanny are in this extreme situation, but I reckon it's common enough.

Managing household staff - especially someone whose has worked for you for a while and who looks after your kids - is really different to managing a normal employee/employer relationship. It’s a unique relationship. So I agree, just ‘talking it out straight’ perhaps isn’t the way forward. It wouldn’t be (hasn’t been) for me (part from major issues). In this case, I would probably use a PP suggestion of introducing a new tracking system for expenses - say it’s for your benefit, you’re losing track of multiple household expenses (not just her spending). Or say you’re reviewing your household budget and wanted to check in on the petrol (and other allowances) -is the amount sufficient, etc.

I try to not accuse/point fingers but tackle an issue as part of a ‘systems review’. If that makes sense.

Would something like a Soldo card work better. As a PP said just ask for the receipts and say your accountant needs them from now on

Ensuring that your children are financially provided for is looking after your children.

Honestly OP I'd let it go. I'm a lone parent and had a live in nanny for 10 years until DD14 went off to secondary school.

I'd play it a different way and say you'd notice it had gone over a couple of times but please try to keep that under xx per week.

It tips a nod to the fact you check without being an arse.

A good nanny is gold dust, I kept the same one for 10 years. She's still part of the family and visits us every few months.

I don't see any need for petrol money if she has the use of your electric car?

Not sure either why she would ever use her own car. Is it adequately insured for her to use in the course of her work?

Agreed. If you have to start again with a new nanny, set it all up from the beginning with expenses receipts etc. but I have a couple of friends whose nannies have quit lately with basically no notice. Maybe just query it casually to make sure it’s noted?

This, but cut off the petrol allowance and insist she use your car..

Agree, go down the 45p per mile route

I think your plan sounds like a good one. Effectively a pay rise like you say.

I also think you sound like a lovely and fair employer. 😊

My agent of blame will be my accountant (i.e. me!). I’ll just say I’ve been advised not to give Nanny cash amounts for petrol anymore.

I have a specific account that I have given Nanny a card for, which I keep a maximum of £200 in at any given time. Whenever she spends money (e.g. on Tesco food shopping, household items, treats for DC etc) I just top it back up to that amount from another bank account. There’s really only so much which could be spent from there at once.

I know the extra amounts Nanny has spent have been spent on petrol and not withdrawn as cash as the item on my bank statement says Tesco Fuel, BP, Shell or whichever.

I would happily pay for Nanny to have advice on money management, but it would probably be a waste of money. Nanny freely admits that she enjoys spending money; when she first started with us she was going food shopping 3 or 4 times a week and spending over £200 in a week. It was one of the reasons I put the spend cap on the bank account she uses. Food shopping is now once a week and costs circa £150 a week for the 4 of us, including whatever Nanny wants to eat during the day, so 4.5 people sort of.

I can see how this was an employee/employer misunderstanding rather than an attempt to defraud, so will move forward on that basis.