To think the Tories must actually want to loose the next election?

[malificent7]

School closures for repairs just before the term starts is bonkers. Are they now content with the amount of money they have plundered and now want Labour to inherit the mess or are they hoping that the dumb electorate will still vote for them or say " well the cost of living has hit everywhere...its nothing to do with Brexit?" Or " but boats."?
I don't get it.

Your hard core Labour and hard core Tories are deeply entrenched. For ease of illustration, not actual figures, say 33.3% will vote for a chimpanzee with a blue rosette and 33.3% will vote for Lama with a red rosette. That is 33.4% of people that are open to discussion and persuasion, and it is that 33.4% that will win or lose you an election. Of that 33.34 there will be people that voted Conservative at previous elections because their policies and personnel resonated greater than Labours' equivalent. They didn't chose to vote blue because their parents, grand parents and great grand parent did, and if Labour make a better argument this time around they might persuade them to give them their vote. Calling them thick conspiracy theorists will make them adversarial and entrenched.

Calling them thick conspiracy theorists will make them adversarial and entrenched.

How could we tell ?

On a more serious note, basically when you cancel out the entrenched votes, it's a small proportion of floating voters that hold the balance.

Is that democracy ?

You wouldn't, until the exit poll arrives at 10pm on election day. And you'll see that despite everyone's friendship group voting one way, internet discussion forums unanimously showing support and twitter lightening up with hashtags you love, it didn't go your way again.

Whose way?

It's true what they say about the internet ...

In a perfect world people would not be so set in their views. Some people still vote for Labour based on things that happened in the 60s, 70s and 80s, before they, and many current politicians were even born. Some people still vote conservative because they feel that they will reward their hard work, be tough on crime and stay out of peoples lives, when they banned people from seeing dying relatives, taxed middle earners into oblivion and don't bother with shoplifters until they nick £200 worth of stuff.

But aside from my rant and grievance against this government, ideally we could all go in to election times with some degree of an open mind, listen to manifesto pledges, watch the debates and make a decision based on that.

But aside from my rant and grievance against this government, ideally we could all go in to election times with some degree of an open mind, listen to manifesto pledges, watch the debates and make a decision based on that.

Well that's never going to happen. So the next best thing you can do is mitigate the outcomes of a lottery based electoral system. Which worked fine as long as no one expected the government to actually do anything. However one of the downsides of giving everyone the vote, is now people expect to see it leads to something.

In "Parliament of Whores", P.J. O'Rourke ponders on the recent modern phenomena that "the government" must do something and wonders where it came from, and what it means.

@SerendipityJane I'll take a look, hopefully its on kindle, I need a book to read.. Likewise, I recommend "The Righteous Mind", Jonathan Haidt.

When you stop laughing, you will realise how true it is.

I'll drop that into my shuffle list. Wet weekends are fast approaching.

As per bloody usual they're going to skip off into the sunset (paying themselves huge exiting payments) while leaving a complete shambles in their wake.

And leaving the tax payers of all shades to pay for the mess.

Calling them thick conspiracy theorists will make them adversarial and entrenched.

1. They already are exactly that.

2.Voting based on that would prove that they are exactly what I said they were. Thick, easily manipulated and permanently aggrieved.

1. Anyone who can look around our country after 13 years of the Tories and consider giving them another five years to wreak havoc is unreachable by reason, facts or logic.

3 Luckily there aren't many of them.

The truth of the matter is 95% of the British public would put an x in the box that offered them literally anyone else!

Starmer is not PM material, a lisping indecisive public school boy that had concrete charisma and a rag tag second rate party. They are certainly not anything like the slick operatives of Blair’s team.

Then you have Rishi that blew up their own party - and with it their chance to win.

I couldn’t call it.

I was asked upthread why anyone would vote conservative, and I will say people really don’t like Starmer and especially not rabid Raynor and it’s better the devil you know sometimes. I am not sure anyone wants to pay even more tax next autumn with Labour, it will boil down to that.

Starmer is not PM material, a lisping indecisive public school boy that had concrete charisma and a rag tag second rate party. They are certainly not anything like the slick operatives of Blair’s team.

He’s not a public school boy. He went to a grammar that became fee paying while he was there. He then got a bursary. They said Attlee wasn’t PM material - look what his government achieved.

We haven’t seen enough of Starmer’s top team to judge but I certainly don’t think Cooper, Reeves, Debonaire, Streeting or Benn are second rate. Rayner reminds me of Barbara Castle, who was formidable. Labour is entirely clear that increasing tax isn’t on the agenda which is just as well as the Tories have increased it to the highest level for 70 years.

The Tories know they're going to lose (tempted to channel Lemmy here, but if I was to be a fool and gamble) I'd say that the Tory aim now is to make it as hard for a Labour government as possible - the govt continues broke, there's a major new spending commitment to fix schools and whatever else is found to have RAAC (unforeseen, inescapable, and likely to land fully in the next administration)

Expect other spending to begin in the next 6 months. Which will barely add up, but just like when the money ran out in 2008, the money ran out in propping up the economy in the early years of the pandemic.

The next Chancellor will need to be very good. Or at least be competent, with their toes held to the fire by a clear-sighted and determined (and probably workaholic) PM. Is there really anyone up to in any of the current bunch, of any stripe?

Awww @BIossomtoes you and your facts.

The few remaining Tory supporters don't want anything to do with facts.

The facts don't support supporting the Tories.

increasing tax isn’t on the agenda which is just as well as the Tories have increased it to the highest level for 70 years

Which taxes do you mean?

Income tax was way higher in the 1970s (and for much of the 80s) - so only 40-50 years ago.

Don't have corporation tax at my fingertips, but thought that was downward too

VAT rates were set by EU (as it was an EU sales tax) and apart from abolishing tampon tax, I don't think much has been done with them since Brexit

I know. I’ll never learn, will I? 😉

So what's Labour’s eye watering woke agenda?

Tax?

https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/faced-highest-tax-burden-70-years-budget-fails-put-britain-path-prosperity

Well he did buy his mum a donkey field

We are very different people.
I find the Labour Party a total embarrassment, they are incompetent, lack leadership and polish and have no policies to speak of.

I can’t believe anyone would look at the multi millionaire Sir Keir from the elite London metropolitan establishment and imagine he has the first fucking clue about the working class of this country!!

Sorry this is going back a bit, but this is the best plan I’ve heard in years. Decades even. Could we, er, proactively, you know, in any way, make any of them aware that this might be a remotest possibility that hasn’t even crossed our minds? Please?

Unlike pauper Sunak?

@Fightyouforthatpie , the Tories once were a low - or lower - tax party. Maybe you’re too young to remember when the higher tax rate under Labour was 98p in the £ and we had a massive brain drain.