Unspoken grief childless men

[Needanewnamebeingwatched]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/28/unspoken-grief-childless-men

What are you thoughts on this report from a man who never had children and regrets it bitterly

EXACTLY

Male or female, not everyone gets broody to perfect schedule. If you’ve had the visceral deep longing for a child since your teens or twenties, lucky you - you’ve had plenty of time to make it happen. If broodiness suddenly hits hard in your late 30s or early 40s, maybe you’ll get in under the wire, but there’s also the risk you might be SOL. It has the potential to be incredibly painful. But the alternative is having a child earlier in life when you’re not actually that fussed about having one, and you don’t know if you’ll ever be. MN is equally full of posts saying that’s a bad idea.

I can’t agree with PPs that women are less selfish. I know a few guys who left it too late who would be wondeful solo dads. They’re thoughtful, genuinely kind, responsible men with high EQ who are great with kids in the family/their own pets.

One had a relationship breakdown through no fault of his own in their late 30s (still good mates with the ex) and the other moved around a lot in his 30s as a medic in conflict zones. Just unfortunate. Both handsome too. I can imagine either of them clearing up endless spaghetti hoops and getting up in the night.

I can also think of women in my friendship group who are quite the opposite of kind and thoughtful! One has frozen her eggs and keen to go it alone if she’s still single in a couple of years. She’s great fun but totally self centred and flakey. It’s hard to generalise about men versus women as solo parents.

Honestly I find it difficult to believe that handsome men in their 40s who would be good dads and want to be a dad (especially a handsome medic ffs!) cannot find a woman of childbearing age to pair up with.

Yes I agree, it’s weird @GalGadont . Eligible men and women alike miss the narrow window for settling down I suppose. I know a solo by choice mum who is great on paper too. The handsome doctor is v. career minded, did an intense PhD, has always worked long hours and is always abroad or at work. Medicine is his passion. He’s never moaned about not finding a partner but when drunk has spoken of his deep sadness about not having children.

I strongly suspect these men will end up being incredible step dads.

The handsome doctor is v. career minded, did an intense PhD, has always worked long hours and is always abroad or at work. Medicine is his passion.

There’s your answer. If you want a family you have to put some time and effort into finding a partner. That kind of singlemindedness doesn’t bode well for family life.

I think you’re right @blossomtoes He didn’t put enough effort in relative to career.

I’d say the same for the solo mum by choice I know too actually and her personality is more naturally selfish than the doctor’s. She’s not a bad mum at all - I just think he’s more of a paternal type and would would do better with the spaghetti hoops on the floor type stuff/endless slog of parenting. Don’t think we can generalise about women being less selfish. I can think of so many exceptions.

At the same time, I and some of my friends experienced being messed about by long term partners who kept putting off having children until we finally split up with them in our 30s ...only for those partners to decide suddenly that they wanted marriage and children after all, with a new, younger woman they met and started a family with within a year. So I find it arrogant and selfish of men who wait until they're older because they csn just find someone younger to have children with.

Got the tshirt for that one @Seagullchippy And I wonder if the man whose memoir we’re discussing was one of those men. Selfish bastards.

‘If you want a family you have to put some time and effort into finding a partner’. Nope. Not necessarily. I know some people who met their life partner in the first week of their first term at university. They didn’t put any more effort in than just wandering down to the college bar. And some people can spend decades putting themselves out there and go on 100s of dates and not find someone. Luck plays a big role. Having a family is not necessarily an indicator of merit and deservingness as some on here seem to believe.

Having a family is not necessarily an indicator of merit and deservingness as some on here seem to believe.

That wasn’t what I meant - or believe. If your entire existence is subsumed in your career where will you find the time to build or maintain a relationship? And the older you are the more effort you need to put into finding a partner if you want one, purely because the pool is smaller. And, of course, the older women are, the fussier they are on the whole. Dr Medicine is my Passion would raise a lot of red flags.

It's hard to feel sorry for him when he says he didn't prioritise DC until his forties.

I'm early 40's and doing OLD at the moment, and have been so surprised by the number of men of my age who don't have children and have stated that they either "want children" or are "undecided/not sure about children".

Most people know that fertility declines over 40, for women more so than men, but these men should also be thinking about who is going to be having these children with them at a much earlier point in their lives.

I'm not sure why you think handsome doctor would be such an incredible dad if he is so career focused, medicine is his passion and he travels for work. sounds like he would be a very absent/distracted/unavailable father who would rely on the mother of his child, to raise it

@MentholLoad I think that's sexist talk that limits men and women alike. I know him and you don’t. He’s not a gender stereotype. He’s a good guy.

@MentholLoad i will take a punt that you are prone to sweeping generalisations and you aren’t one for thinking beyond the most rudimentary of opinions thinking outside the box

of course I don't know him. my impression is based purely on the information that you have given on the thread 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm not really sure why you are taking punts about my character. we are here to discuss the sadness of childless men, not me

Because just on this thread alone

any woman - irrespective of how ugly inside and / or outside will have absolutely no problem finding someone to have sex

oh and a career minded travelling doctor won’t make a good dad because he will be distracted and absent

just on this thread

I do find myself agreeing that it is a bit odd to only get to 40 and start thinking about this. The friend I referred to was becoming concerned by his late twenties but I don't know what's typical.

I think some people are in denial about how old they are in that they obviously know their chronological age but "don't feel that old". We've all seen all those people on S&B who claim to look more than 10 years younger or those people with older partners who "seem younger" often for superficial reasons. There's a lot of denial and I don't think as a society were very good at accepting the inevitability of aging.

Obviously there's a lot of talk about female fertility to counteract this part for women. Not so much for men even though it is something that has been demonstrated with research.

a career minded man SO career move need, passionate about medicine and travel to the extent that he hasn't had time to forge a relationship....how is he going to have time to raise kids? he isnt

I think it should be talked about more.

In my late 20s I had women childless by circumstance tell me directly look, you don't have forever. If you want this, make it happen.

Men get the opposite - it's fine, you can have kids forever, there's no rush.

Women are told they might regret it when they're older.

Men are told wow you can have this bachelor life

Women will say I'm childfree / childless and this is how I feel about it.

Men are generally just men, unless implicated my marriage to a childless woman and even then it's about her not him.

In a world where mens MH has historically been ignored, where suicide rates are higher, where boys are told not to cry, where posters onn talk about how boys are easier because they have less emotions, I think anything that gets me to talk about their feelings is good.

Would you have the same indifference to a woman in her 40s who was too busy building a career and living her life to settle down or contemplate kids until she was 40? If she posted on here saying how she felt would you mock her and tell her it's her own fault?

I think lots of men AND women drift into having kids because that's what you do. Especially if you've found a partner in your 20s. Or it's happened by accident but you're stuck together.and plenty of women at that age wouldn't give overly flowery, emotional answers to the qn. I have 3. I have no idea what my answer would be. Probably sarcastic about how you'd get too much sleep and love in too much peace and quiet in a tidy house.

Fact. Absolute fact. No room for nuance or change or people adapting, shifting priorities. Just black and white.

what a depressing way to live @MentholLoad

it's impossible to have an intelligent or interesting discussion with someone about something, if that person just attacks your character. it's also a damn weird way to carry on

Do you two think you could stop squabbling? It was an interesting thread until you derailed it.