Page 15 | Unspoken grief childless men

RamsesTheChub · 05/09/2023 18:31

I have sympathy with anyone who wants a child and can't have one. Plenty of men out there feel this way.

Nearing 40, single & unattractive, I know the feeling, but life is hard. There are so many entitled people out there and this particular dude, whilst I have sympathy, seems to be one of them.

Seagullchippy · 05/09/2023 18:36

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 18:23

I mean, that doesn't happen either, does it. women might not be able to find a satisfactory life partner, but we can always find men to have sex with

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That's incredibly hurtful and offensive to those of us who couldn't easily find men to have sex with, yet alone to have a baby with. It isn't actually very easy!

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 18:37

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:26

Not every woman is able to find sex on demand.

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nah, yes they can, if they want to. if they specifically just want sex and not a relationship. if they wanted a hook up to get pregnant, 99% of women could do that (ignoring infertility)

we are conscious that our fertility fails as we get older so if we want a partner to raise kids with, we are looking for that from a much earlier age.

the article is about a guy sad because he hasn't had kids. and that's probably because he hasn't had to think about failing fertility and never thought that he wouldnt be able to pull fertile women when he was older and had stopped fucking about.

if he is lamenting, not having found a PARTNER, then that's different

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:37

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 18:31

You could say the same about some women. How many grab the nearest available man in their late 30s because the clock’s ticking?

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They probably don't publish a book about it.

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:39

nah, yes they can, if they want to. if they specifically just want sex and not a relationship

Really, they can't. Not if they are ugly, or, that cardinal sin where many men are concerned, fat.

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 18:39

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:37

They probably don't publish a book about it.

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Oh that’s all right then. 🙄

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 18:40

Seagullchippy · 05/09/2023 18:36

That's incredibly hurtful and offensive to those of us who couldn't easily find men to have sex with, yet alone to have a baby with. It isn't actually very easy!

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why is it hurtful? fertile aged women can do this, if they aren't hung up about casual sex. I'm not saying this as someone who has had loads of sexual partners, I haven't had sex in years. but women up to 40 years I reckon, can find men willing to have sex..most men are mostly always willing to have sex

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 18:41

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:39

nah, yes they can, if they want to. if they specifically just want sex and not a relationship

Really, they can't. Not if they are ugly, or, that cardinal sin where many men are concerned, fat.

ugly, fat women have sex!

RamsesTheChub · 05/09/2023 18:41

"MentholLoad
nah, yes they can, if they want to. if they specifically just want sex and not a relationship. if they wanted a hook up to get pregnant, 99% of women could do that (ignoring infertility)"

Lucky ladies... 🙄

Seagullchippy · 05/09/2023 18:42

I have sympathy because the grief of not having children is deeply painful.

At the same time, I and some of my friends experienced being messed about by long term partners who kept putting off having children until we finally split up with them in our 30s ...only for those partners to decide suddenly that they wanted marriage and children after all, with a new, younger woman they met and started a family with within a year. So I find it arrogant and selfish of men who wait until they're older because they csn just find someone younger to have children with.

I think more boys need to be encouraged to see fatherhood as something to work at and aspire to, something to be celebrated and admired.

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:42

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 18:39

Oh that’s all right then. 🙄

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The whole point of this thread is that Nurden has published a book - a book in which he, for example, rants about a friend's temerity in talking about her children, in front of him as a childless man.

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 18:44

RamsesTheChub · 05/09/2023 18:41

"MentholLoad
nah, yes they can, if they want to. if they specifically just want sex and not a relationship. if they wanted a hook up to get pregnant, 99% of women could do that (ignoring infertility)"

Lucky ladies... 🙄

not really! most of us don't want meaningless sex, with randomers do we?! but we CAN is what I'm saying

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:45

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 18:41

ugly, fat women have sex!

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You can speak for all ugly, fat women? As one myself, any sex that has come my way has been hard won and at long intervals.

PermanentTemporary · 05/09/2023 18:45

I've got to be honest, I agree that it isn't difficult to find men to have sex with. Certainly at 49, no beauty and pretty overweight I had no trouble. But a lot of women don't want an series of afternoon bunk ups at a Travelodge with randoms off a hookup site. I enjoyed it for a while though. I guess if I'd wanted to get pregnant and had been a bit younger I could have done, but if that had been my aim I don't think I would have wanted to go that way.

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 18:51

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:42

The whole point of this thread is that Nurden has published a book - a book in which he, for example, rants about a friend's temerity in talking about her children, in front of him as a childless man.

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I don’t know which article you read but the one I read didn’t say anything like that. It said:

I’ve had men with children react with anger, as though they feel threatened, when I’ve tried to talk about my pain,” he said.

That’s not a rant, it’s a sad reflection.

Alycidon · 05/09/2023 18:53

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 18:51

I don’t know which article you read but the one I read didn’t say anything like that. It said:

I’ve had men with children react with anger, as though they feel threatened, when I’ve tried to talk about my pain,” he said.

That’s not a rant, it’s a sad reflection.

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Read the extract from the book preview that I posted earlier on the thread.

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 18:55

I thought we were talking about the article. I’m out, this is like trying to nail a jelly to a wall.

MintJulia · 05/09/2023 19:13

There is a widely held view that marriage is not something that a man should aspire to - all those jokes about 'last night of freedom' etc. Plenty of men are focused on avoiding the financial commitment of marriage, we see it on here regularly. Plenty of men try to pressurise their girlfriends and wives into having abortions.

To then hear that (some) men feel sorry for themselves because they don't have children doesn't get much sympathy from me.

Many women who badly want a child go it alone. Such options are also available to men (adoption, fostering, surrogates) but they seldom choose that route, because what most of them really want is companionship in old age and the status of being a father, not to do all the hard work and child-rearing and sleepless nights that go with it.

Seagullchippy · 05/09/2023 19:13

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 18:40

why is it hurtful? fertile aged women can do this, if they aren't hung up about casual sex. I'm not saying this as someone who has had loads of sexual partners, I haven't had sex in years. but women up to 40 years I reckon, can find men willing to have sex..most men are mostly always willing to have sex

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It's hurtful because it implies there's something abnormally unattractive about those of us who haven't found that to be the case at all, haven't had men asking us for sex, have been repeatedly rejected when we tried to get random sex and, when in a relationship have found our partners don't want sex much with us.

It's also hurtful to the many, many men who aren't interested in and/or are disgusted by random sex and only want sex in loving relationships.

MentholLoad · 05/09/2023 19:19

Seagullchippy · 05/09/2023 19:13

It's hurtful because it implies there's something abnormally unattractive about those of us who haven't found that to be the case at all, haven't had men asking us for sex, have been repeatedly rejected when we tried to get random sex and, when in a relationship have found our partners don't want sex much with us.

It's also hurtful to the many, many men who aren't interested in and/or are disgusted by random sex and only want sex in loving relationships.

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it's not about being attractive or not. men will have sex with women they don't find attractive.

we have got a bit side tracked by sex. women can use sperm doners's if they want know kidss

I think what you are talking about, is not finding a partner/having a traditional family unit. that isn't what these men are sad about

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 19:23

I think what you are talking about, is not finding a partner/having a traditional family unit. that isn't what these men are sad about

I think that’s exactly what the author of the book’s sad about. He didn’t stay in relationships because he couldn’t see them lasting the distance.

AmIAutumnalNow · 05/09/2023 19:41

No @MentholLoad I'm talking about sex. Not all of us can find a man to have sex with.

But that's detailing the thread so I'm leaving it.

And pp was right. It was a hurtful comment.

Mummy08m · 05/09/2023 20:19

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 18:55

I thought we were talking about the article. I’m out, this is like trying to nail a jelly to a wall.

But the article in the op is about his book, it's one of those "interview with the author of a new book" articles. Read it again maybe.

The book extracts really do make him seem very misogynistic and entitled. It's not hard to imagine how he never found a woman to settle down with

BIossomtoes · 05/09/2023 20:44

I don’t need to read it again. I’m not going to read a whole lot of other stuff that wasn’t mentioned in the OP.

Angrycat2768 · 05/09/2023 21:15

Many women who badly want a child go it alone. Such options are also available to men (adoption, fostering, surrogates) but they seldom choose that route, because what most of them really want is companionship in old age and the status of being a father, not to do all the hard work and child-rearing and sleepless nights that go with it.

I agree. When women decide to have a child alone, they know full well the implications of them being a single parent. Very few men want to lone parent a child, either through adoption or surrogacy. They want a woman to do the boring stuff. Even though many men through circumstance do lone parent very well ( my friend adopted an older child as part of a Gay couple, and then they split and he's lone parented excellently since) I doubt a 55 year old who suddenly decided he wants kids wants to be doing the packed night feeds and picking Spaghetti hoops off the floor every day..